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The New Atavachron Digest 4/96
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 18:39:46 -0500
From: owner-atavachron@jabular.webster.com
Apparently-To: atavachron-outgoing@jabular.webster.com
To: JEFF@ADDIMENSION.COM
The New Atavachron Digest 96/04/06
Sender: owner-atavachron@webster.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Jeff Preston
----------
Date: 01 Apr 96 02:49:14 EST
From: Tony Accurso <74654.3011@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Message from Internet
Hi,
Where can one obtain more info on the 'Harness'? I am sure alot of us guitarists
would be interested in it. I am curious as how to set it up with a combo amp,
say a Boogie DC-5. Thanks.
Tony
----------
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 04:51:12 -0500
From: paulkohler@enter.net (PAUL KOHLER)
Subject: BELLADONNA CD
>From: RickerRA@aol.com
>Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 21:31:53 -0500
>Subject: Never on CD
>
>>Of all of the albums that Allan has
>>played on whether as a leader or as a sideman, which recordings have never
>>been released on CD?
>>
>>AH-"Road Games"
>>Esther Phillips-"Capricorn Princess"
>>Jon St. James-"Fast Impressions"
>>Jon St. James-"Transatlantic"
>
>Add: Nucleus Belladonna
"Belladonna" WAS released on CD but is now out of print. It was released on
the German label, Line Records. A good friend of mine has it and I've had
it in my hands so it does exist.
PAUL KOHLER
----------
From: rene@ns.via.nl
Subject: AH at North Sea ? and Warren Cuccurulo's new cd
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 14:23:43 +0100 (GMT+0100)
Hi everybody,
I am hoping to see AH this year at the North Sea Festival (july). I am sure
that the festival organisation would like to invite Allan and Gordon
Beck to promote NTS. So if any of you is in contact with Allans manager
please say to him to he should contact MOJO concerts in The Netherlands.
And I would like to plug Warren Cuccurulo's "Thanks to Frank" a bit. Its
a great rock album.. and Vinnie C. plays on it too ! Killer !
Rene Janssen.
----------
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 1996 08:44:02 -0600 (CST)
From: Bradley Earl Shelbourn <00111549@bigred.unl.edu>
Subject: pickups
Hi there,
i inadvertantly deleted the digest--not long ago--in which a couple of
you were offering to sell the Duncan Holdsworth pickups...well, if you
are still offering, e-mail me personally so i can relay the info
(price, condition, etc) to my guitarist friends (i'm a bassist so it
means little to me)..thanks
Brad Shelbourn
00111549@bigred.unl.edu
----------
From: Paolo Valladolid
Subject: None Too Soon + Other Comments
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 11:00:31 -0800 (PST)
First of all, it's great to see Atavachron up and running again! Here are
the issues I want to cover.
None Too Soon
This is a naive question but I'll ask anyway. Is there anyway we could
pool together a group ordering effort for this CD? In other words, is
it possible for us to organize an order of, say 100 CDs from Japan, with
a volume discount with money pooled from amongst ourselves?
Shawn Lane
I just picked up the new Michael Shrieve album featuring two trios, one
with Lane and Jonas Hellborg and the other with Bill Frisell and Wayne
Horvitz. I suppose on the surface there are a number of similarities
between the styles of Lane and Holdsworth such as fluid horn-like lines
and Indian-like phrasing (which I suspect comes more from vibrato bar
techniques largely pioneered by Holdsworth and Jeff Beck than from
extensive listening to Indian music). However upon closer listening,
Lane's phrasing is quite different - especially his vibrato. Some
of the tunes co-written by Lane have interesting chords, but they're not
quite like Holdsworth's harmonics progressions.
Paolo Valladolid
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----------
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 15:35:56 -0700 (MST)
From: Bill Lantz
Subject: re: Road Games
Malcolm Humes wrote:
>I think I brought this up before ages ago:
>I have very specific memories of reading a profile of AH right before
>or when Road Games was released, I think in Musician or some such mag.
>The article was profiling the then relatively obscure Holdsworth and
>I seem to recall the story being about Eddie Van Halen supposedly
>"re-discovering" AH and helping swing the deal for Road Games and
>a subsequent falling out over the problems getting the release out.
>
This won't help your quest for finding that article Malcolm but I wonder
what influence or persuasion Frank Zappa had to the EP. He is thanked on it
as well. I know the album was released before Zappa's 84 tour so maybe Chad
was "on loan" and thus the thank you. But I've heard Frank say on more than
one occasion that Allan was his favorite guitarist. And he rarely fessed up
to listening to anything like Allan's music.
Bill
----------
From: MrBERWELL@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 19:18:10 -0500
Subject: Re: Never on cd
RickerRA @aol.com writes:
>>Of all of the albums that Allan has
>>played on whether as a leader or as a sideman, which recordings have never
>>been released on CD?
>>
>>AH-"Road Games"
>>Esther Phillips-"Capricorn Princess"
>>Jon St. James-"Fast Impressions"
>>Jon St. James-"Transatlantic"
>
>Add: Nucleus Belladonna
Actually that was issued on cd:
02- IAN CARR, BELLADONNA Line LMCD 9.00744
Recorded in 1972, cd released in 1990. Note that it was actually
released under "Ian Carr", and not Nucleus. It's out of print now,
good luck finding it!
----------
From: DanielIvan@aol.com
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 16:06:12 -0500
Subject: Re: the joy/pain quotient
>the joy/pain quotient was waaaay high due to the fact that
>between sets there was a looong set by a black r&b band that
>played a 20-some minute version of lionel richie's "all night
>long". imagine the pain :)
Hmm. I don't see anything here to smile about. I only feel pain.
In all of the Atavachron archives I've read so far, I can't remember a more
poignantly racist, ignorant comment.
Ashamed,
Daniel Ford
----------
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Sponsorship survey -- thanks!
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 02:48:28 -0600
Hi,
I just wanted to thank everyone who participated in
the Atavachron sponsorship survey -- 67 of you
shared your thoughts with us on placing small banner
advertisements on the pages. Most of you said you'd
be interested to see what companies would support
the program, and many of you even said you'd be willing
to help with referrals or solicitations. Believe me, your
help has been much appreciated.
With that said, I'm proud to announce that we have our
first sponsor: Mike Balter Mallets, manufacturers of
high-quality, semi-custom-made mallets for professional,
orchestral, educational and marching band percussion
applications. I'd like to ask each of you to give Mike a
warm welcome by visiting his Web site (located at
http://www.balter.com/ ), which we at ADdimension have
been fortunate enough to design and serve. Also, if you
feel it is appropriate, I'd certainly be happy to see you
drop a note in e-mail to Mike, letting him know that you
appreciate his help in keeping Atavachron online. I've
talked to Mike many times over the past few months, and
I know he believes in doing right by his customers -- I
sincerely hope that all the percussionists in the Atavachron
family will give Mike a chance to prove that he makes the
finest percussion products in the industry today.
I didn't intend for this to become a sermon, or a sales
pitch, but I can definitely use your continued help, if you
can spare it. Another Atavachronista, who got into the
Web-presence provider game before I did, warned me
that the road ahead was *not* so smooth. Excellent
advice! :) But being an idealistic believer in my abilities
and those of my partners, I was not dissuaded. So here
we are. ;) What I am saying is this: If you know of anyone
who is looking for affordable Web page design, storage
and/or hosting, please let me know. Or, if you know of a
business who could benefit from exposure on Atavachron,
let them know about our sponsorship program; e-mail
me for details. Every customer ADdimension gains is
just more assurance of Atavachron's continuing existence.
Okay, enough said about THAT! :) I'll be building a new
survey... again, dealing with the commercial-end of
things. This time, it'll be a survey about official Holdsworth
merchandise. You might recall my saying that Allan and
I have been discussing the possibility of offering t-shirts
and other merchandise via the Web. Well, here's your
chance to tell us what kind of things you'd really like to
see available. The survey should be ready sometime this
weekend, so check out the home page and take a minute
to fill it out. After this survey, I'll be doing a long-overdue
opinion poll on Allan's albums, etc., much as we did back
in 1992 on the mailing list.
Also, for those who haven't been hitting the Web site,
if you're using Netscape Navigator 2.0, you'll notice a
couple of changes on your next visit. :) Let me know what
you think about those, as well.
Thanks for being here -- all the best!
Jeff
----------
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 17:48:14 -0500
From: paulkohler@enter.net (PAUL KOHLER)
Subject: NONE TOO SOON (A BIT TOO LATE?)
Hello Everyone,
Well its' been about 2 weeks now since I've gotten NTS and after
about 5 or 6 listens to it I feel that I can now give an honest opinion on
it.
I still stand by my initial impression of it, I like it but it doesn't blow
me away the way I expected it to. I like "Countdown", "San Marcos", "NTS",
and "Inner Urge" the best. Overall though I would say that this album is
disapointing. When I first found out that AH was doing an album like this I
was convinced that it was going to be his best record ever!! Perhaps I put
too much pressure or expectations upon the music, I don't know. The album
isn't what I would call bad, far from it, it just seems to lack the musical
"Magic". There are certainly some great moments on here, but they seem to
come and go far too quickly. I think that I really prefer hearing AH
playing his music and not anyone elses. I've got some old (1970's) tapes
from BBC radio broadcasts where AH was playing in a more straight ahead
Jazz context with jazz pianist Pat Smythe and I absolutely LOVE it!! He
plays so beautifully on those songs. I was sort of hoping that NTS would be
a continuation of that idea only 20+ years later. I should also point out
that NTS is probably light years ahead of what most guitarists could ever
hope to achieve, but from an AH perspective I know he could have done
better!! Oh well, I guess I'll set my sights on his next release. I'd
really like to hear what other people have to say about NTS. I've played
NTS for several friends who are serious AH fans and without me telling them
my reaction to it they all had a similiar opinion of it, hmm. Take care.
P.S. Has anyone heard anything about the recording that AH is supposed to
be making with Gary Husband and Pierre Moerlen? This is a new project that
I read about in a recent interview with Gary Husband.
PAUL KOHLER
paulkohler@enter.net
----------
End of Atavachron Digest
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Send administrative requests to: atavachron-request@addimension.com
Web page: http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 22:45:04 -0400
From: owner-atavachron@jabular.webster.com
Apparently-To: atavachron-outgoing@jabular.webster.com
To: JEFF@ADDIMENSION.COM
The New Atavachron Digest 96/04/12
Sender: owner-atavachron@webster.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Jeff Preston
----------
From: Matooki@aol.com
Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 22:46:12 -0500
Subject: NTS/Allans practice routine
Just received my copy of NTS, and I must say it's brilliant. I think this
release will bring a wider audience to Allan's music and style of playing in
the future. Right now, though, this CD has my vote for jazz album of the
year. Also, in all the years of being a Holdsworth fan, I've never read
anything on Allan's practice routine. I'm especially curious about how he
practiced in his early years of playing. I recently was at a guitar clinic
featuring Frank Gambale and he stated that in his 30 years of playing, on
four different occasions he committed himself to practicing 10-12 hours a day
7 days a week for a year straight. Talk about "woodshedding". Does anyone
know if Allan followed regimens like that.
Thanks
Matooki
----------
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 1996 14:31:20 -0500
From: fstopron@inforamp.net (Ron Belli)
Subject: Road Games info
Excerpts from "Reaching for the Uncommon Chord," by Chris Hoard:
Allan, having spent some time with friend Eddie Van Halen, expressed
interest in Van Halen's offer to co-produce a record with Warner Brothers.
Allan signed a contract with Warner Brothers, but scheduling problems with
Van Halen's South American tour prevented Eddie Van Halen from
participating in the "Road Games" project. Eventually, Allan, peeved by
delays, insisted on producing the project himself under the auspices of Van
Halen producer Ted Templeman. Templeman had specified that the project be a
"special" mini-album, hence the six resulting "Road Games." Allan found
himself caught in a mire of executive level contradictions and attempted to
appease Mr. Templeman by changing vocalists, recording studios, and drum
sounds until the tracks had all been rerecorded once, and the costs had
escalated to more than double what Allan had originally planned. Allan
borrowed money to remix the recording tracks at the Music Grinder without
Warner Brothers' approval. He had been forced to pay high rates at a Warner
Brothers' house studio for mixing, which he considered markedly inferior to
that of the studio where he had recorded the tracks. "What is the point of
releasing something with a terrible mix if you've gone to a lot of trouble
to record it right?"
Regards,
fstopron@inforamp.net
PS: A correction regarding Allan's first instrument(s). Not the oboe. His
first instruments were the saxophone and clarinet, and then wanted to play
the oboe, when he developed problems with his ears, which prevented him
from doing so.
----------
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 1996 12:29:45 -0500
From: Gregory Rochford
Subject: Harness initial impressions
>Date: 01 Apr 96 02:49:14 EST
>From: Tony Accurso <74654.3011@compuserve.com>
>Subject: Re: Message from Internet
>
>Hi,
>
>Where can one obtain more info on the 'Harness'? I am sure alot of us
>guitarists would be interested in it. I am curious as how to set it up with
a combo amp,
>say a Boogie DC-5. Thanks.
> Tony
>
I picked one (a Harness II) up at the Greater Southwest Guitar Show in
Dallas, TX
March 30th. Guitars West from San Marcos, CA was the name of the
shop selling the things. (From memory, the info's at home). You should
be able to get more info from them. The owner's manual says it's possible
to connect both your speaker and the Harness to the amp's output, but
I'm running the amp to the harness to some effects to a power amp. Hence,
the speaker in my combo is unused. I've only got a few hours in playing
with the thing, but the sound and control provided is just excellent! The
Harness allows me to get the tone I want (burning) at the volume I want (low)
without compromising either one. I don't mind losing the use of that
speaker in the combo.
Even more exciting was that fact that the designer (i.e AH) was demonstrating
the Harness at the booth. Just hearing him warm up was amazing...
And talking to him is where I found out about this mailing list....
[ Moderator's note: That's good to hear that Allan's handing
out info on the list. Regarding the Harness, ADdimension has
reached an agreement with Allan to market the Harness I
(designed for amps with a master volume control) and the
Harness II (for amps with OR without a master volume) via
the Web. So, all you folks who have been wondering how to
order the Harness, we should have ordering "on tap" for you
in a matter of days -- keep watching the Atavachron Web site
for all the details! --JP ]
gr
Project Technology -- Shlaer/Mellor OOA/RD
Instruction, Consulting, BridgePoint, Architectures
--------------------------------------------------------
Gregory Rochford grochford@projtech.com
5800 Campus Circle Dr. #214 voice: (214) 751-0348
Irving, TX 75063-2740 fax: (214) 518-1986
URL: http://www.projtech.com
----------
From: DanielIvan@aol.com
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 16:00:35 -0400
Subject: A sensitive subject...
Dear Atavachron Subscribers:
My sincerest apologies to Mike Coughlin and Jeff Preston for starting a fight
over the "All Night Long" anecdote. Mike, it embarassed me greatly to
introduce myself to the group by unfairly flying off the handle at you. I
responded in the heat of the moment and way out of proportion with the intent
of your story. I hope we can put this behind us peacefully.
Regards,
Daniel
P.S. And yes, twenty some minutes of "All Night Long" in the middle of a
Holdsworth show would bother me too.
----------
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 96 10:48:51 PST
From: "Hoard, Chris"
Subject: NTS Domestic Release... North Sea Connections...
Spring Is Here!!!
And with it cometh the buds and flowers ripe with new colors, sounds, and
possibilities...
>Where can one obtain more info on the 'Harness'?
I'm trying to get Claire H. to compile an official description, etc., and
forward it to either JP or myself, and I'll post it... We need a conspiracy to
distract AH temporarily from his furious Fizzbusting prototype
design/construction activities--I'll try and address this tomorrow night when I
see him.
______________
>From: rene@ns.via.nl
>Subject: AH at North Sea ?
>I am hoping to see AH this year at the North Sea Festival (july).
>I am sure that the festival organisation would like to invite Allan and
Gordon bv Beck to promote NTS.
I think it would be best to have the promoters contact Gordon Beck.
I'll send you an EMS with Gordon's phone #. Trust me, let Gordon take
the iniative on making this happen, and maybe it will. AH will be in
London next week visiting with GB, so I recommend you act quickly!!!
From: Paolo Valladolid Subject: None Too Soon +
Other Comments
>None Too Soon
>This is a naive question but I'll ask anyway. Is there anyway we could
pool together a group ordering effort for this CD? In other words, is
it possible for us to organize an order of, say 100 CDs from Japan, with
a volume discount with money pooled from amongst ourselves?
Paolo, what a brilliant idea. Now, hold on!!!
Give it another week, and then let's talk about pooling our money for
orders for the domestic release--we're still awaiting word from Japan on
the rights for the US release, but I expect to have some answer before
the end of the week. This will likely save subscribers on the order of
$15-20 per disk. If this becomes an independent venture, I can assure
you all ATV subscribers will be extended the opportunity to purchase the
release mail-order at a distributor price level. The other possibility
is that an established large independent label (like Mesa/Blue Moon,
etc.) will pick this up--the availability date will be much later in
that event, and I'll let you all know immediately, and the more anxious
among you can go an splurge on the Japanese pressing.
>fRom: paulkohler@enter.net (PAUL
KOHLER)
>Subject: NONE TOO SOON (A BIT TOO LATE?
>I still stand by my initial impression of it, I like it but it doesn't
>blow me away the way I expected it to. I like "Countdown", "San Marcos",
>"NTS", and "Inner Urge" the best. Overall though I would say that this
>album is disapointing. When I first found out that AH was doing an album
>like this I was convinced that it was going to be his best record ever!!
>Perhaps I put too much pressure or expectations upon the music, I don't
>know. The album isn't what I would call bad, far from it, it just seems to
>lack the musical "Magic". There are certainly some great moments on here,
>but they seem to come and go far too quickly. I think that I really prefer
>hearing AH playing his music and not anyone elses.
Well, all is explained with Paul's opinion in the last sentence quoted
above. I guess I could take my favorite tracks from WT, HHA, Secrets,
etc., and come up with a compilation album that I was absolutely convinced
totally blows off NTS--but then, I'm one of those odd few that thinks WT is
probably his most brilliant solo work to date...
If your expectations are along the lines of Secrets or whatever, you're
bound to be disappointed. Nevertheless, I've given NTS 10-15 listens, and
as a *jazz* album--I'm repeatedly blown away and bored new orafices over
it!
What's important about this recording is that a jazz audience in particular
can hear AH's interpretation of changes *they can anticipate* in a familiar
rhythmic setting. AH's music on his other solo recordings does not swing
or typically employ shuffling rhythms (with a few exceptions) and the
miraculous sequence of changes he frequently summons up could only be
anticipated or appreciated by a rare breed of jazz musician on first
listen--and certainly not by the mainstream jazz audience. So the kind of
expectations this audience would place on NTS I think are completely
different than my own--when I put on my jazz ears.
And that for me is the beauty of NTS--I know these all these tunes well
(now), and many of them I've heard played on numerous occasions by a
procession of great jazz players. Most jazz hounds I've played NTS to
agree that NTS swings like a motherf*r--but the chance to hear AH
navigating and soaring through these familiar changes and grooves, just
further points out his brilliance--his singular sense of melodic
interpretation impresses me in any setting--but I have to be sympathetic
and knowledgeable about this kind of setting to be really blown away by
what's happening here--and I am!
That's not to say some stodgy jazzophile won't slam NTS as fusionesque
drivel--but my guess is the vast majority will embrace it.
Paul's favorite tracks are also my own--but "How Deep Is The Ocean," and
"Norweigan Wood," and "Isotope," are all stunners in their own right. If
one appreciates the keyboard artistry of GB--then this album is bound to
please. Gordon, honestly, is a monster--he may not be in a league with
Keith Jarrett, but then, nobody is anyway. GB holds his own as jazz piano
stylists with the legends of genre--and he's been around since the late
50s--he owns a big chunk of English jazz history--but he's still amazingly
vital. Just listen to the new Herbie Hancock record, or countless records
by the Marsalis Bros., and you will understand that there's a contract (at
present) which separates this English Man--from a lot of currently less
inspired American piano legends.
Anyway, just my thoughts after letting NTS sink in now for a few weeks...
All the best/Chris
----------
Date: 10 Apr 96 10:38:17 EDT
From: Philip TISSANDIER <100101.1661@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: HOLDSWORTH TRIBUTES
Interesting posting re: Zappa credit on Road Games / Zappa rating Holdsworth as
his favourite guitarist. Could this be the start of an interesting thread?
Who else of note has mentioned their admiration for AH? I guess Eddie Van
Halen's admiration is well documented but have people like Pat Metheny or John
Scofield or John McLaughlin ever said anything about him?
On a similar(ish) note, I have always rated the late Alan MURPHY as a great
guitarist. What is the story behind AH's involvement with Level 42. Did
anything of their colaboration make it to vinyl (or silicon)? And lastly, what
was AM's recorded output? That's if anyone is interested out there...
Philip Tissandier
100101.1661@compuserve.com
----------
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 96 03:00:32 UT
From: "Timothy Messer"
Subject: Tempest - Duel at Dawn
Greetings from Melbourne, Australia. AH has toured here three times; I trust
he will return.
I recently purchased "Sense of the Absurd", a compilation on CD of the first
two Patto recordings. Patto, of course, featured the late, great Ollie
Halsall on guitar. Noting that Halsall joined Tempest after Patto, the liner
notes to "Sense of the Absurd" record that the highlight of his tenure was a
BBC In Concert "where Ollie joined Allan Holdsworth for a duel at dawn".
Does anybody know whether a recording of the BBC concert was ever released
commercially?
Regards
TIM MESSER
----------
End of Atavachron Digest
Send postings to: atavachron@webster.com
Send administrative requests to: atavachron-request@addimension.com
Web page: http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 21:44:03 -0400
From: owner-atavachron@jabular.webster.com
Apparently-To: atavachron-outgoing@jabular.webster.com
To: JEFF@ADDIMENSION.COM
The New Atavachron Digest 96/04/16
Sender: owner-atavachron@webster.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Jeff Preston
----------
From: "Kenneth M. Sailors"
Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 21:52:03 +0000
Subject: Re: Influences
I'd be curious to know what influence Pat Martino has had on
Allan's playing or what Allan might have to say about Mr. Martino.
I am a big & long time fan of AH and a recent discoverer of Pat
Martino.
Thanks,
Ken
----------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:03:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ashley Edward Collins
Subject: Re: HOLDSWORTH TRIBUTES
Regarding guitarists' admiration for AH, I remember an interview with
Vernon Reid in Guitar magazin where he mentioned AH's solo in
"Endomorph," and the only way he could comment was to give a low,
reverent whistle. I also seem to remember reading an interview with
Yngwie Malmsteen where he cited Allan as the only contemporary
artist/guitarist he'll admit to being thoroughly impressed by (I haven't
been into Yngwie for a long time, so this would have been a really old
article)
Ashley Collins
aec200z@barbados.cc.odu.edu
----------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:53:09 -0500
From: Juan Carlos Russo
Subject: Holdsworth and Level 42
Philip TISSANDIER <100101.1661@CompuServe.COM> asked - What is the story
behind AH's involvement with Level 42. Did
anything of their colaboration make it to vinyl (or silicon)? -.
Well, the album is titled Guaranteed RCA, 1992, BMG Records. Hot spots:
guitar (solos) -seven years, a kinder eye. Drums: (Gary Husband) - all of it.
It is a _discusseable_ recording (as in not for every AH fan) but listening
is guitar lines among _simple_ progressions is definitive inspiring. Also
Gary Husband fills and grooves are xcelent all over.
Si de noche duermes mal....
duerme de dia, animal !! >:-p
----------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 16:42:45 -0400
From: parag chakravarti
Subject: No US release?
So much for this idea:
>>Guitar genius Allan Holdsworth can't get a US release of his
>>new album "None Too Soon"
>>It's out on Polydor in Japan.
>>Can you help?
>>
>>PC
>
>
>While I agree that he's a wonderful player, we do not record the music of
>Allan Holdsworth.
>
>For ECM,
>
>Joe Pignato
>
>ECM
>1540 Broadway, 40th Fl.
>New York, NY 10036
>(212) 930-4996 Fon
>(212) 930-4278 Fax
>jpignato@ecmrecords.com
>
asdf
----------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 18:59:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: jt@redmon.com (John Tlusty)
Subject: AH and Level 42
In response to Philip TISSANDIER's question about Allan and Level 42, Allan
guest-appeared on Level 42's "Guaranteed" CD ('92), just playing some solos
here and there. The great Gary Husband plays drums on this is as well.
Wouldn't consider this CD essential AH listening material, however.
----------
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 20:45:11 -0400
From: Malpaugh@aol.com
Subject: NTS, swing, etc.
I feel real fortunate to have None Too Soon. I find it to be a fine effort,
but I can't give it the enthusiastic Album of the Year award that others are
proclaiming. I will say though, that I hear amazing potential for a live
setting situation. I would like to hear these guys really open up on these
tunes. I think this effort only hints at a wealth of possibilities but falls
short of capturing the real power of this band.
I would, for arguments sake, like to play devil's advocate on one issue
concerning a recent posting that "NTS swings like a motherf*--." First off,
let me preface this by saying that AH is my favoirte musician in any genre
and I've found him to be the most distinct, interesting improvisor since I
heard Believe It some 20 years ago. Depending on what your definition of
"swing" is, there are those who would say Allan couldn't swing if you hung
him from a tree. On the other hand, Gordon Beck swings like hell. GB's
rhythmic sense really emphasizes the triplet feel, thus it swings by that
definition. On the other hand, AH's Coltranesque lines rarely adhere to that
kind of rhythmic phrasing. Mind you, I'm not talking about the value of the
playing-I'm simply reducing it to a technical definition of what "swing" is.
Nobody will dispute Allan's abilities as a technician, improvisor,
innovator, etc. But there are those who would dispute the "jazziness" of his
playing based on his ability to swing. Believe me, I don't buy into the
Wynton Marsalis school of thinking on this, but Wynton does make a compelling
argument for the distinction between improvised music and jazz. Some might
argue, by that definition, Coltrane (and a whole bunch of others)didn't swing
either. Coltrane's ability to swing, in that sense, is well documented on
his recordings from the 50s and early 60s. Perhaps he chose to move his
music into a different rhythmic orientation. Critics, at that time, were
dubbing this direction by Coltrane, Dolphy and others as "anti-jazz". It all
makes for an interesting discourse. I guess that brings me to my next
point-the Holdsworth/Beck collaboration.
I really like GB's playing and I agree with an earlier review by Chris Hoard
saying he can "[play] alongside AH while keeping a strong musical personality
intact". As much as I admire both, I don't really like the blend. GB's
orientation seems to center around bop and post bop playing. He does play
"out" briefly but returns to the more comfortabe area inside the parameters
of bop playing. His execution is flawless and tasteful. However, when
contrasted against AH's go-for-it, 3-chords-on-one, linear explorations...it
just doesn't work for me. It makes me wonder if I would want to hear Red
Garland play with Coltrane in his famous 60s quartet? No. Though Garland was
one of the greats, McCoy Tyner was the right ingredient for Coltrane's
musical direction and vision. Although I respect Allan's decisions and his
vision, I wonder what other 'ingredients' would produce. Having heard Alan
Pasqua's album, Milagro, and knowing his past associations with AH, I feel
that that could really be an extremely fruitful collaboration. Maybe Allan
wants the sort of conception in the jazz area that GB does so well. To me,
GB sounds downright conventional alongside Allan and I'm looking to hear
something more out(along the lines of Herbie Hancock, Billy Childs, Joey
Calderazzo, Kenny Kirkland or Richie Beirach).
I know I've gone on here a bit, but I have one more observation. Some
readers have remarked as to NTS bringing "a wider audience". I assume
they're talking about the Jazz consumer. Unfortunately, Jazzers, in their
snobbery, usually lean toward artists that have some kind of jazz
credibility(and Allan has very little). Artists usually gain some
credibility and visibility after they've apprenticed with some acknowledged
jazz master. Think of popular jazz guitarists-Scofield(Miles, Chet Baker,
etc.) McLauglin (Miles). Nobody really noticed Bill Frisell from Stone Tiger
or Eberhard Weber until he started to work with Paul Motion and that crew.
Mike Stern released an album of standards, played with Miles, Brecker and
others until he gained the notice of Joe Henderson. Pat Metheny worked with
Gary Burton but still was scoffed at by critics until his associations with
Ornette, Haden, Higgins,DeJohnette and Dewey Redman earned him some
credibility. Outside of Allan's 20 year old Tony Williams fusion(which many
believe is dead)project, what associations does AH have that the jazz
consumer will recognize and trust? NTS SHOULD give Allan a wider audience,
but unless he tours or radio picks it up, it will still be just the
Holdsworth faithful buying this one. I always wished Allan had worked with
Miles to gain some attention. After Stern and Scofield he brought in Robben
Ford and I always wished it had been AH. Did Miles know about Allan? I don't
know how AH would've felt about that gig though.
Finally, Phillip Tissandier asked about McLaughlin, Scofield and Metheny
mentioning AH. I've wondered this too as he doesn't get any acknowledgement
from the jazz community. This is what I've found:
>Scofield in a DB Blindfold Test a few years back, commented that he liked
Allan's "bravado
Oops! Don't know what happened here, folks, but part of this digest
appears to be missing. If anyone has a copy, I would appreciate it if you would
e-mail me. Thanks! --JP
Date: Fri, 19 Apr 1996 22:05:24 -0400
From: owner-atavachron@jabular.webster.com
Apparently-To: atavachron-outgoing@jabular.webster.com
To: JEFF@ADDIMENSION.COM
The New Atavachron Digest 96/04/19
Sender: owner-atavachron@webster.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Jeff Preston
----------
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 01:17:55 -0700
From: kessel@ix.netcom.com (Kenny Kessel )
Subject: Re: NTS, swing, etc.
Re: Mark Alpaugh's comments about Allan's ability to swing, his
collaboratins with Gordon Beck, and the possibility of his gaining
wider recognition from the jazz community: you make many excellent,
well-articulated points in this post! Regarding your pondering the
possibility that Allan could've played in one of Miles' latter day
bands, though: what do Stern, Scofield, and Robben Ford all have in
common? Top-drawer blues chops (well, particularly Scofield and Ford).
This is not Allan's strong suit. They're also all much funkier. As
open-minded as Miles was, he may well have admired Holdsworth (if he
was even aware of him), but I can't picture him fitting well into
Miles' thing.
----------
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 11:24:54 +0200
From: P.Terhoeven@itm.RWTH-Aachen.DE (Peter Terhoeven)
Subject: NTS
Could someone provide me with detailed description on NTS by Allan
Holdsworth? I have the chance to know somebody who knows somebody in Japan,
who would send me a disk to Germany (I am from Germany). Which record
company, label, etc., the complete name and artist (AH I guess) and any
other useful information needed for someone who doesn't know anything on
where to buy it.
Thanks a lot.
Peter Terhoeven
Voice: ++49-241-80-7589 Fax: ++49-241-8888-223
P.Terhoeven@itm.rwth-aachen.de http://www.itm.rwth-aachen.de
[ Moderator's note: Have you seen the info at the Web site? --JP ]
----------
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 04:25:31 +0000
From: Andrew Lewis
Subject: Re:
> I'd be curious to know what influence Pat Martino has had on
> Allan's playing or what Allan might have to say about Mr. Martino.
> I am a big & long time fan of AH and a recent discoverer of Pat
> Martino.
>
Above from Ken... very good question! Esp. since Martino has a
"trademark *staccato* sound," but is also a MASTER improviser and
technician (the SCARIEST speed of anyone at the time he came up)
and has a personal, identifiable, gorgeous tone. BTW,
Martino, if anyone out there doesn't know this, was one of the greats
before having a brain aneurysm, at which point he lost his
memory--knew nothing about the guitar, and didn't recognize his mom.
He eventually started from scratch, and became one of the greats
again. I'm a long-time admirer of both of these guys, and would be
curious to have them do *anything* together--play, or converse
(interview). Any other Martino freaks out there? Sorry if this is
off topic.
Below comments from Mark Alpaugh:
>
>. Depending on what your definition of
> "swing" is, there are those who would say Allan couldn't swing if you hung
> him from a tree....
> Maybe Allan
> wants the sort of conception in the jazz area that GB does so well. To me,
> GB sounds downright conventional alongside Allan and I'm looking to hear
> something more out(along the lines of Herbie Hancock, Billy Childs, Joey
> Calderazzo, Kenny Kirkland or Richie Beirach).
>
Agreed, Allan plays in much too unconventional groupings to get that
"triplet feel," and may not be overly concerned with it. I think you
can't define jazz by a particular rhythm (many disagree with me on
this, I realize)--but it's, at this point, socially defined (e.g.,
look at what's in the jazz section of record stores... is it fair to
call all of this one genre of music? Certainly not based on any
rhythmic conception).
I wonder if the combination of lack of conventional swing with his
being British has something to do with his lack of credibility in
jazz circles. Later Coltrane, certainly, earlier Archie Shepp,
Braxton, Charles Gayle, MUCH Miles, most of the "avant-garde" in
general don't "swing." Wynton Marsalis also says that this stuff is
not jazz. Maybe, but those folks (and a host of others) don't suffer
from lack of "credibility" among the jazz crowd at large. They may
suffer from lack of record sales... Or is it a matter of Allan being
straitjacketed as a "progressive rock guy" b/c of his earlier
career? Doubt playing with Miles would have been the deciding
factor. How much jazz credibility does Robben Ford have? Or Foley?
or a host of other folks... I'm sure Scofield has it b/c Scofield
can and does fit with so many contexts and does have that "triplet"
feel often enough.
Forgive me if I'm writing too much not directly about Allan. I won't
even write the lengthy dissertation on what is so incredible about
Frisell here for that reason (for the moment I'm just glad many Atavachron
subscribers seem to also be Frisell fans).I think it is difficult for those
of us who haven't heard NTS to say anything *directly* about Allan
that hasn't been posted here before more than once. Maybe I'm just
uncreative...
Andrew
----------
From: DMB5561719@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 09:01:39 -0400
Subject: Alan, Yngwie and Manfred Baby...
on Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 12:03:30 -0400 (EDT),
Ashley Edward Collins writes:
>I also seem to remember reading an interview with
>Yngwie Malmsteen where he cited Allan as the only contemporary
>artist/guitarist he'll admit to being thoroughly impressed by (I haven't
>been into Yngwie for a long time, so this would have been a really old
>article)
Years ago Yngwie used to trash Holdsworth for being too "chromatic",
then eventually he changed his tune and admitted that, yes, Holdworth
is a monster. Duh, no kidding!
parag chakravarti shares this with us:
>So much for this idea:
>
>>>Guitar genius Allan Holdsworth can't get a US release of his
>>>new album "None Too Soon"
>>>It's out on Polydor in Japan.
>>>Can you help?
>>>
>>>PC
>>
>>
>>While I agree that he's a wonderful player, we do not record the music of
>>Allan Holdsworth.
>>
>>For ECM,
>Joe Pignato
>ECM
Holdsworth produces his own stuff. Manfred Eicher produces his own stuff.
It would be a rare occasion for an album produced by someone other
then ME to be released on ECM. A cold day in hell? I feels like it
could be the war of the worlds!
David Beardsley
dmb5561719@aol.com
----------
From: Johnmcgann@aol.com
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 09:25:43 -0400
t "does AH swing" seems ridiculous-he's playing music as
himself,not some Charlie Christian or Wes Montgomery imitator.I think it's a
bit "apples and oranges"to apply those standards to AH-he's not doing a
Scott Hamilton trip as far as I can hear.Of course the jazz fascists will say
he doesn't swing...that dogmatic thinking is part of the reason for this
whole retro suit-and-tie-Joe-Bebop-snobcat syndrome.Trying to be an
individual in this world is an invitation to dart throwers,unfortunately.Love
to all!
----------
From: dalane@bbn.com (Dave Lane)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 09:33:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Odd and Bizzarre Rumor
"ToddM" offered:
> As some of us know, Scott Henderson and Tribal Tech went into the studio
> to record what was to be a straight-ahead improvised album. They did some
> of this sort of out-of-control rampaging performances on the most recent
tour.
>
> I heard from a friend who has "connections in the biz" as they say, and he
> says that after Tribal Tech submitted their proposed all-improv album to
Mesa-
> Bluemoon they were aghast and rejected it outright. The band was firm in
> their desire that it be released. Mesa-Bluemoon then rejected Tribal-Tech
and
> are now apparently looking for a new label.
There is a great article in the current issue of Pulse! magazine that
I urge everybody to check out. It's basically a rant against what the
writer refers to as "business jazz", and pretty much sums up my feelings
on the subject. He specifically mentions Mesa-Bluemoon as one of the
purveyors of the genre.
I've always thought that Henderson was obviously of great talents, but
that his recorded output (I've heard Nomad & Dr. Hee and own Face First,
Dog Party and whatever Ponty albums he's on) was as boring as hell.
Maybe he finally did something he could hang his hat on and
Mesa-Bluemoon wouldn't stand for it.
--Dave
----------
Date: 17 Apr 96 12:25:21 EDT
From: Bill Cummings <76534.744@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: Message from Internet
Responding to Mark's ? from April 13th post
>Metheny, in a 1979 Musician interview mentioned 3 contemporaries whom he
looked up to-Michael Gregory Jackson(what became of him?),
Michael dropped the Jackson surname many years ago (probably around 82) when he
started concentrating on R&B flavored pop music, and has since been known as
Michael Gregory. He's bounced around several record labels over the years and at
one point was on a big label (I forgot which one) with Nile Rogers (From Chic)
producing. He' also did some nice acoustic stuff for a german label a few years
ago. As good of a guitar player as he is, he's probably an even better vocalist
and songwriter. He put out another pop album last year on a small independent
label and had Jerry Marotta on drums and David Sancious on keys on some cuts.
Highly produced stuff, but original sounding for the most part, I believe he
still lives up in the Pioneer Valley near Northampton, Ma., and every so often
he plays out locally (usually at The Iron Horse in Northampton) My brother Bob
played keys in his band a few years back, and more recently they've played
together on the Tennis courts! Tough biznes this Music Biz iz!
Bill Cummings
----------
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 10:47:14 bst
From: R.J.Heath@lboro.ac.uk (Richard Heath)
Subject: Re:
>----------
>
>Date: Mon, 15 Apr 96 16:44:27 bst
>From: R.J.Heath@lboro.ac.uk (Richard Heath)
>Subject: Miscellaneous
>
>Dear All,
>
>
>The current UK shop price for Tempest CD is < =A310 (pounds sterling) but
>shipping, insurance and possibly US excize will push that up a bit - and
>there is a very slight risk of dodgey pressings. If I get at least 25
>e-mails expressing interest, I will go ahead making fuller enquiries and
>estimation of cost..
>
>3. Could the Atavachron readership en masse used the Internet to shake up a
>few of the so-called serious music press, (at least on this side of the
>water), by demanding serious and substantial reviews of the new AH - if they
>can manage reviewing Metheny and McLaughlin, they can at least listen to
>Holdsworth. Besides it may get us a reasonably priced European label for
>release. May I suggest Mojo and Q as receipients of a mass lobbying - if
>there is interest I give the e-mail number next time around? Q needs a kick
>up its upstart rear following its vote of Bruford's "Feel Good To Me" as
>the 4th worst drum album ever, a few years ago -ignorant prats.
>
>Querkly yours until the future,
>
>
>Dick Heath
>
Further to the above.
It appears something got lost in the translation, the current price of the
first two Tempest albums on a single CD in UK records shops, is less than
ten pounds sterling (including VAT).
MOJO's e-mail no. is MOJO@DIAL.PIPEX.COM for the mass lobbying of the
magazine about it taking a more positive attitude to writing and reviewing
Allan Holdsworth. Maybe somebody should put a suitable set of words together
and set a date (and time) for the mass- transmission?
Jeff, as keeper of the archives, would you be interested in a couple of
articles published in Melody Maker in the 70's? The first talks with and
about the (Bill) Bruford Band (at the time of the release of "Feels Good To
Me") and the second with and about the original UK line-up (at the time of
the first UK album's release). The journalists in both instances appear to
be knowledgable about the "rock stars" but the "jazz artistes" were given
few column inches. Having not read these articles for almost 2 decades I
was amused to see that in explaining AH's guitar playing/style (of the
time), the journalist (Chris Welch? Richard Williams? - who wrote the liner
notes for the former album), used Harvey Mandel style as a parallel. I
would admit I have done the same since although readily admit their music
usually differs considerably. However, Mandel did move a little distance
from the electric blues on "Shangrenade" (long lost but good album??) toplay
a form of fusion in the late 70's. (By the way, good to see Mandel recording
again- you will find him tucked away and bearly recognisable on one of
several tribute albums to Peter Green , "Rattlesnake Shake". Rumour has it
Peter Green, himself, may even do a gig at the Buxton Blues Festival in May
1996!!!) Sorry I digest. Back to the articles: I haven't the kit to scan
these articles onto file and transmit via the Internet, so if you want them
I'm happy to photocopy and mail them to you. An address please?
[ Moderator's note: I'd be happy to get copies, certainly, but
could not place them on the Web site unless the proper copyright
permissions were secured. Do you still want my address? :) --JP ]
There have been several mentions about live recordings on BBC transcription
discs (at huge cost) - oddly we don't see these in the land of the BBC. But
I do well remember a series of live television recordings of a programme
series "Rock Goes To College", on one of (then) three TV channels in the
70's, i.e. BBC 2,. Bands on the series included Bruford, AC DC, Cheap Trick
and the (then arch punks) Stranglers (who were notorious for refusing to
allow the BBC transmit the recording) . Did the BBC retain the video
recordings (possibly in mono-tone) and if so, are they available?
By the way, if people want to use me as "base" for compiling an Allan
Holdsworth C90 favorite of favorites, I will give it a go.
Dick Heath
----------
Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 16:18:16 PST
From: "Hoard, Chris"
Atavathrong:
>From: Malpaugh@aol.com
>Subject: NTS, swing, etc.
I enjoyed Mark's response to some of my broad-stroke statements...
>I would, for arguments sake, like to play devil's advocate on one issue
>concerning a recent posting that "NTS swings like a motherf*--." First off,
>let me preface this by saying that AH is my favoirte musician in any genre
>and I've found him to be the most distinct, interesting improvisor since I
>heard Believe It some 20 years ago. Depending on what your definition of
>"swing" is, there are those who would say Allan couldn't swing if you hung
>him from a tree.
Agreed on all the above--maybe my statement should have been--'if he ever came
close to swinging--we'll NTS is the place.' I read an interview in which Tony
Williams spoke very critically about AH's sense of rhythm (or lack of it). AH
would probably be more critical of himself than anything written here!
I don't think all AH's solo passages swing--but more importantly--they don't
have to. And yet, there are moments on "Isotope," "Inner Urge," "HDIT Ocean,"
and "N. Wood" in which the rhythm section is swinging hard--and AH's
improvisation is "dancing" right in the groove (admittedly one man's groove is
another man's ditch, or some such).
>On the other hand, Gordon Beck swings like hell. GB's rhythmic sense really
>emphasizes the triplet feel, thus it swings by that definition. On the other
>hand, AH's Coltranesque lines rarely adhere to that kind of rhythmic phrasing.
>Mind you, I'm not talking about the value of the playing-I'm simply reducing it
>to a technical definition of what "swing" is.
For the most part I concur. However, I take a little exception to the last
statement--there really isn't a fitting technical definition of what "swing"
is--if you've listened to people like Duke Ellington or Louis Armstrong would
talk about it--it's something felt, rather than heard, something that moves you
rather than something you can define. A musician either has it or they don't
type thing--I'd argue AH has it, but has difficulty with it, and mostly keeps it
hidden.
Most of the time I think he consciously avoids swinging because it's been done
to death. IMHO--AH understands very much what it means to swing and how to do
it--for that matter the musicians he holds in the highest regard are masters of
swing--Jarrett, Coltrane, Williams, Brecker, etc. AH is clearly not in this
league--or Gordon Beck's--when it comes to swinging--it's not the type of music
he's focused on. But those who would say AH's playing *never* swings--no I
don't buy it--I think he can turn it on when he wants to--which I admit, is not
very often. Another point, I think working with GB on this last project pushed
him to swing a lot more in his playing than he ever has before--the head and
tail of "Isotope" for example leave no doubt for me that he can swing with the
big fellas if he chooses.
Anyway more of my .02--thanks to Mark especially for digging up those McLaughlin
and Metheny quotes!
>From: R.J.Heath@lboro.ac.uk (Richard Heath)
>Hurray, Eddie Jobson is recording again: can anybody tell me of albums other
than "Theme of Secrets" and "The Zinc Album" in the last 15 years?.
Aside from the new UK album--he was on a Jethro Tull album (with a pink cover)
circa 1980/81 as a special guest (can't remember the title)--other than that he
was on a private release called "Piano One" (also about that time) I'm aware of
nothing else. Btw, cool listening recommendations, Dick. Can't wait to hear
the Garbarek--another musician AH digs and would like to record with--I think
Jan had an interest in working with AH too, when I spoke with him some years
ago.
>So what does the Atavachron readership recommend to be recorded from
AH's recordings - for personal or educational use only..
Here's my top 5 list (this list changes every week of course) of AH
recordings--note I've limited this to music he's composed in full or part,
though quite a lot of my favorite AH moments are on the 'One of A Kind' record:
1. "Nevermore" (UK)
2. "Unmerry-Go-Round" (MF)
3. "Mr. Berwell" (Atv)
4. "Sphere of Innocence" (WT)
5. "Fred" (Tony Williams New Lifetime)
Top 5 recordings AH didn't compose:
1. "One Of A Kind" (both parts) - Bruford
2. "Inner Urge" (NTS)
3. "Sahara Of Snow" (both parts) - Bruford
4. "Nostalgic Lady" - Jean Luc Ponty
5. "Questions" - (W/T)
I'd be curious--we're overdue on a poll here--which tracks would get the most
votes. Maybe even J. Preston would consider adding to the FAQ "The subscribers
best loved tracks..."? Just a thought\CH.
[ Moderator's note: A new survey is under construction, as a matter
o' fact. This will allow, among other things, for Web users to rate
each release, and the results will be reflected on the discography
pages. This should be underway in a couple of weeks. --JP ]
----------
End of Atavachron Digest
Send postings to: atavachron@webster.com
Send administrative requests to: atavachron-request@addimension.com
Web page: http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 23:18:23 -0400
From: owner-atavachron@jabular.webster.com
Apparently-To: atavachron-outgoing@jabular.webster.com
To: JEFF@ADDIMENSION.COM
The New Atavachron Digest 96/04/23
Sender: owner-atavachron@webster.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Jeff Preston
----------
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 09:03:44 -0400
From: jseltzer@wardenclyffe.com (Jeffrey L. Seltzer)
Subject: Re:
>There have been several mentions about live recordings on BBC transcription
>discs (at huge cost) - oddly we don't see these in the land of the BBC. But
>I do well remember a series of live television recordings of a programme
>series "Rock Goes To College", on one of (then) three TV channels in the
>70's, i.e. BBC 2,. Bands on the series included Bruford, <}snip{>
I've actually seen that recording, although it's been ten years since I've
been in touch with the guy who has (had?) the tape. As I recall, it was
very good, including Peacock and the original Feels Good to Me lineup...
Jeff Seltzer
----------
From: MrBERWELL@aol.com
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 12:37:45 -0400
Subject: Allan reaching a wider audience
>>
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 20:45:11 -0400
From: Malpaugh@aol.com
Subject: NTS, swing, etc.
(excerpt)
I know I've gone on here a bit, but I have one more observation. Some
readers have remarked as to NTS bringing "a wider audience". I assume
they're talking about the Jazz consumer. Unfortunately, Jazzers, in their
snobbery, usually lean toward artists that have some kind of jazz
credibility(and Allan has very little). Artists usually gain some
credibility and visibility after they've apprenticed with some acknowledged
jazz master. Think of popular jazz guitarists-Scofield(Miles, Chet Baker,
etc.) McLauglin (Miles). Nobody really noticed Bill Frisell from Stone Tiger
or Eberhard Weber until he started to work with Paul Motion and that crew.
Mike Stern released an album of standards, played with Miles, Brecker and
others until he gained the notice of Joe Henderson. Pat Metheny worked with
Gary Burton but still was scoffed at by critics until his associations with
Ornette, Haden, Higgins,DeJohnette and Dewey Redman earned him some
credibility. Outside of Allan's 20 year old Tony Williams fusion(which many
believe is dead)project, what associations does AH have that the jazz
consumer will recognize and trust?
(snip)
>>
First of all, nobody noticed Stone Tiger, in fact most people dont even know
about that band! It was Bill Frisell and Percy Jones, with Mike Clarke on
drums
(or Dougie Bowne sometimes). They couldnt get any label interest, so they
called it
quits, when they hadn't even realized their potential. Thats another
story...
About Allan reaching a wider audience, and playing with some other jazz
masters, well,
he has played and recorded with some of the finest jazz musicians in todays
music.
In 1988 he was part of the Jazz Explosion Superband, which consisted of
Stanley Clarke,
Randy Brecker, Steve Smith, Mino Cinelu... they did a short tour. I'm sure a
lot of
people were turned on to Allan then.
As far as recording with other well known jazz artists, I would have to
recommend the
two Andrea Marcelli cd's. The first one (by the way, I had never heard of
Andrea Marcelli
before that one, but he sure had a serious line-up on it) had Allan soloing
next to
Wayne Shorter. Jimmy Johnson and John Patitucci played bass, and it also
featured
Bob Berg, Mike Stern, and Mitch Forman. A great record. Andrea's second cd,
"Oneness" is also
incredible. Allan is only on two cuts, but the tune "Moon" is worth more
than whatever you will
pay for that cd. Allan plays baritone guitar on that cut, and I believe it
has the best lead guitar tone
he has ever gotten on record. He for the most part plays a simple melody
line, but the
way he makes the notes sustain....unbelievable. I think that tone is exactly
what Allan strives
for... when he tries to make the guitar "not sound like a guitar." That cd
also featured
Mike Mainieri, Ralph Towner, Chuck Loeb, Gary Willis, Jimmy Johnson, Kei
Akagi, and some
others.
>>
NTS SHOULD give Allan a wider audience,
but unless he tours or radio picks it up, it will still be just the
Holdsworth faithful buying this one. I always wished Allan had worked with
Miles to gain some attention. After Stern and Scofield he brought in Robben
Ford and I always wished it had been AH. Did Miles know about Allan? I don't
know how AH would've felt about that gig though.
<<
Lets all be thankful that Allan didn't have to suffer through "Human Nature"
and
"Time After Time"...
Just my two centablas.
----------
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 12:18:01 +0000
From: Andrew Lewis
Subject: 4/20 digest--Jobson marginalia
> >From: R.J.Heath@lboro.ac.uk (Richard Heath)
>
> >Hurray, Eddie Jobson is recording again: can anybody tell me of albums other
> than "Theme of Secrets" and "The Zinc Album" in the last 15 years?.
>
> Aside from the new UK album--he was on a Jethro Tull album (with a pink
cover)
> circa 1980/81 as a special guest (can't remember the title)--other than
that he
> was on a private release called "Piano One" (also about that time) I'm
aware of
> nothing else. Btw, cool listening recommendations, Dick. Can't wait to hear
> the Garbarek--another musician AH digs and would like to record with--I think
> Jan had an interest in working with AH too, when I spoke with him some years
> ago.
>
Jobson also played with Roxy Music--has some nice keys and violin
(esp. on track "If there is something") on Roxy Live. I haven't
heard this in a decade and am not even sure if itwas made within the last
15 years..... I believe he's on a few Zappa things, too. He's on the cover
of _Zoot Allures_, but doesn't play on it (!). I can do the
Zappa research if someone wants me to--Don't know if the original question
meant "as a leader" so I won't dive in unless asked.
Peace,
Andrew
----------
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 14:49:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: The Man Himself
Subject: The Apathetic Record Label Defense Foundation
This message is being cross-posted to the David Torn and Allan Holdsworth
mailing lists.
For a few weeks, there's been information on _Atavachron_ to the effect
that Polygram is refusing to release Holdsworth's new album in the US.
Today there was a special edition of _DoorX_ to the effect that CMP is
pushing back the release of the new Torn album, that the label has been
very non-communicative with Torn, and that support for the release in the
US looks shaky at best.
So I'm suggesting that the readership of both of these lists start getting
in touch with some of the more stylistically-inclined print publications
and request substantial coverage of these new albums, in an effort to gain
maximum exposure for both Holdsworth and Torn. Even if these albums were
bring released with a reasonable amount of publicity, they would deserve
substantial coverage by the press, representing as they do some landmark
statements for each artist. The fact that there's so much trouble
surrounding the releases at this point means they're even more in need of
support. Beyond that, the problems that these two men are having with
their respective label is in itself worthy of coverage.
My two recommendations for magazines to contact are _Musician_
(musician.mag@sonicnet.com) and _Guitar Player_ (guitplyr@mfi.com). In my
opinion, these are two of the better and more musically inclined
publications out right now; they both have a substantial readership, and
they both have histories of devoting coverage to both Holdsworth and Torn.
In particular, _Musician_ has, of late, been prone to extensive coverage
of the more business-oriented aspects of music making, and the kinds of
trouble that Torn and Holdsworth are having could be sufficient incentive
for major exposure.
These are the two initial publications that I'm going to send mail to; if
anyone else has recommendations as to other magazines or online outlets
that would be likely candidates for covering these stories, I'd certainly
encourage them to post the e-mail addresses.
Hopefully this sort of effort can, at least, direct some attention to the
music that these two musicians are trying to get heard -- and perhaps
shed some much-needed publicity on the more dire realities of exactly
what the process of trying to be heard can entail. If nothing else, it
might help point some receptive ears in the direction of some music that
they might not otherwise get an easy opportunity to hear.
Thanks,
--Andre LaFosse
----------
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 1996 18:32:22 -0400
From: y5x8c2rm@coastalnet.com (Jason Williams)
Subject: NAMM
Hello, Does anyone know if AH is going to be at the East Coast NAMM show
this year. I'm going and I wanted to know if AH was going to be there.
Thanks
Jason
y5x8c2rm@coastalnet.com
----------
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 05:34:27 -0400
From: parag chakravarti
Subject: Other artists comments on AH
This from a site called "a talk with Steve Morse":
Asked abou Pat Metheny, he says,
>A: Well, the main thing was he didn't really care what anybody was saying
was cool. He was just
>doing whatever it was, just real musical identity. Kind of like same as
Holdsworth is a good influence
>in that way. No matter what, you know that Holdsworth is an individual.
He's going to stay an
>individual. He's going to do what he wants to do. Pat is that way for sure.
Pat Metheny is just so
>cool. You know how he comes up with an all acoustic album. It starts out
with him strumming
>chords after everybody's hailing him as a updated be-bop guy, but more
melodic. Then he comes
>out with this Brazilian sound. He just does what he wants. That's so great.
>
asdf
----------
From: WindONeal@aol.com
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 21:20:59 -0400
Subject: Re: DARTS/RGTC
Dave Lane made a critical observation that I would like to highlight. Re:
Allan's "Trying to be an individual in this world [being] an invitation to
dart throwers", I have two comments. One, Allan is an original and books will
be written and classes taught on the musical world he has created. And two,
being from another star-cluster he doesn't feel darts as we do. So we
shouldn't worry if humans don't believe he swings. He does much more, he
spins (aids the earth's rotation on its axis)! You'd have to have seen/heard
him LIVE!, in a room, burning on guitar. Those who have already know what I'm
trying to describe. I hope everyone (who needs to) will one day-and remember.
BTW, in answer to Dick Heath's query to the BBC 2 colour broadcast of Bruford
on Rock Goes To College (RGTC), I taped it and still have the tape (that's
legal, isn't it, as I am still taping things off of TV and no one is telling
me to stop). This was the Bruford Band's first ever LIVE! performance (and
for an enthusiastic college crowd-remember when that meant something?) and
DOES STILL remain in the BBC archives. I have not, however, heard of plans to
release it (although Bruford himself COULD retreive this and release it for
sale if he wished)!
----------
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 10:25:33 -0700
From: rpeck@pure.com (Ray Peck)
Subject: Eddie Jobson miscellanea
>Aside from the new UK album--[Jobson] was on a Jethro Tull album (with
>a pink cover) circa 1980/81 as a special guest (can't remember the
>title)--other than that he was on a private release called "Piano One"
>(also about that time)
The Tull album is called "A". I have a great recording of one of the
supporting concerts off of the radio at the time. I will be able to
make copies for trade as soon as I get my open reel deck fixed. I
believe (but could be wrong) that Jobson played a UK-based keyboard
solo during the show (Alaska?). I also have Piano One, which I bought
for the Jobson tracks. They're OK, but I really value it for the
Ryuchi Sakamoto solo piano version of "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence"
and two fantastic tracks by Joachim Kuhn. Recommended.
----------
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 09:13:19 -0500 (CDT)
From: Conan The Librarian
Subject: Re: NTS, swing, etc.
>The New Atavachron Digest 96/04/19
>
>
>Date: Thu, 18 Apr 96 16:18:16 PST
>From: "Hoard, Chris"
>
>Atavathrong:
>
>>From: Malpaugh@aol.com
>>Subject: NTS, swing, etc.
>
>I enjoyed Mark's response to some of my broad-stroke statements...
>
>>I would, for arguments sake, like to play devil's advocate on one issue
>>concerning a recent posting that "NTS swings like a motherf*--." First off,
>>let me preface this by saying that AH is my favoirte musician in any genre
>>and I've found him to be the most distinct, interesting improvisor since I
>>heard Believe It some 20 years ago. Depending on what your definition of
>>"swing" is, there are those who would say Allan couldn't swing if you hung
>>him from a tree.
>
>Agreed on all the above--maybe my statement should have been--'if he ever came
>close to swinging--we'll NTS is the place.' I read an interview in which Tony
>Williams spoke very critically about AH's sense of rhythm (or lack of it). AH
>would probably be more critical of himself than anything written here!
>I don't think all AH's solo passages swing--but more importantly--they don't
>have to. And yet, there are moments on "Isotope," "Inner Urge," "HDIT Ocean,"
>and "N. Wood" in which the rhythm section is swinging hard--and AH's
>improvisation is "dancing" right in the groove (admittedly one man's groove is
>another man's ditch, or some such).
>But those who would say AH's playing *never* swings--no I
>don't buy it--I think he can turn it on when he wants to--which I admit, is
not
>very often. Another point, I think working with GB on this last project
pushed
>him to swing a lot more in his playing than he ever has before--the head and
>tail of "Isotope" for example leave no doubt for me that he can swing with the
>big fellas if he chooses.
Thanks to Chris for basically stating what I was feeling after my first
two listens to _None Too Soon_. Having just received my "review copy" on
Friday, I was hesitant to put my thoughts down until giving it another few
listens. (I also have to get over the "jaw-drop" factor that usually hits
me on the first couple of listens to new AH.) However, Chris hit on a
couple of points that echoed my sentiments very closely.
Granted, AH's music does not usually fit into the neat rhythmic patterns
that define "swing". Coltrane didn't do it all the time either, but I doubt
many would say he didn't "swing". What he (nad now AH on _NTS_) did was to
be able to move from a regular meter into more open and unstructured
improvisatory space and return to "earth" when called for. For those of
you who know Coltrane's work, think about his music from around the time of
_Live At Byrdland_ until he went off into _Interstellar Space_. He was
learning how to free himself from conventional time when creating his
solo-space, but the music was still rooted firmly by Tyner, Garrison and
Jones. (Of course, with Rashied Ali and Alice Coltrane it became much
looser.)
In the case of AH, we seem to be dealing with a paradox. (And that may
be why we are seeing some of the reactions we are to _NTS_.) It seems that
he is allowing himself to be anchored more firmly than usual by the
structure of the music, while being propelled into more of a "groove" than
normal by Beck and the rhythm section. On top of this, we still expect him
to find room to occasionally make his forays into "space".
In fact, one of the most interesting things for me about _NTS_ is the
fact that in order for AH to "fit" into that groove, I think he is forced
to play in a bit more restrained fashion than normal. In a way, I consider
that a bonus; it's as if he's "chosing his words more carefully".
As Chris said (and IMNSFHO), on _NTS_ he definitely puts to rest any
notion that he is not able to swing. And rather than thinking of this as
somehow limiting AH, I think of him as taking be-bop to new heights.
As an aside (apropos to nothing in particular), besides the Henderson
tunes and "HDITO", I was really struck by "Norwegian Wood". For my money,
the group has captured the feel of Coltrane's takes on "My Favorite
Things". In fact, unless my ears are failing me, the intro has a
jazz-waltz feel that could easily segue into "MFT".
Of course I could be wrong about all of the above.
Back to lurk-mode.
Chuck Vance
----------
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 14:22:48 -0500
From: Gregory Rochford
Subject: Swinging
>Below comments from Mark Alpaugh:
>>
>>. Depending on what your definition of
>> "swing" is, there are those who would say Allan couldn't swing if you hung
>> him from a tree....
The opening (first 5 bars) of the AH's improvisation on "Michelle"
from Come Together (1993, NYC 6004-2) _swings_. Then at 1:32
(CD timing) it sounds like there was a splice in the tape, and
it's off to the races. Again at 1:47 it sounds like there
was another splice. Either my CD player is skipping very consistently,
the CD has a defect, or AH's solo was very masterfully edited.
(I only noticed last night when relistening to the song in preparation
for posting this message.)
I was generally under the impression that AH's solos were cut from
the whole cloth (i.e. one take), rather than patched together from
multiple takes.
Can anyone confirm or deny whether that specific cut is edited,
and, in general, is that SOP (or not) for recording Allan's solos?
thanks
gr
FYI: I currently only have e-mail access and only recently
joined the mailing list, so apoligies in advance if this
is FAQ.
Project Technology -- Shlaer/Mellor OOA/RD
Instruction, Consulting, BridgePoint, Architectures
--------------------------------------------------------
Gregory Rochford grochford@projtech.com
5800 Campus Circle Dr. #214 voice: (214) 751-0348
Irving, TX 75063-2740 fax: (214) 518-1986
URL: http://www.projtech.com
----------
End of Atavachron Digest
Send postings to: atavachron@webster.com
Send administrative requests to: atavachron-request@addimension.com
Web page: http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
From: owner-atavachron@jabular.webster.com
Subject:
HPosted-Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 21:08:26 -0500
H?l?Received-Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 21:08:26 -0500
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 21:41:48 -0400
Apparently-To: atavachron-outgoing@jabular.webster.com
To: JEFF@addimension.com
The New Atavachron Digest 96/04/25
Sender: owner-atavachron@webster.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Jeff Preston
----------
From: "Michael T. Grimes"
Subject: Jobson's live effort with Tull
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 21:09:55 -0700 (PDT)
>>Aside from the new UK album--[Jobson] was on a Jethro Tull album (with
>>a pink cover) circa 1980/81 as a special guest (can't remember the
>>title)--other than that he was on a private release called "Piano One"
>>(also about that time)
>
>The Tull album is called "A". I have a great recording of one of the
>supporting concerts off of the radio at the time. I will be able to
>make copies for trade as soon as I get my open reel deck fixed. I
>believe (but could be wrong) that Jobson played a UK-based keyboard
>solo during the show (Alaska?). I also have Piano One, which I bought
>for the Jobson tracks. They're OK, but I really value it for the
>Ryuchi Sakamoto solo piano version of "Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence"
>and two fantastic tracks by Joachim Kuhn. Recommended.
(Hi Ray!) On the "A" tour, the keyboard solo that Jobson played
was a variation on what ended up as "Colour Code" on his Zinc album.
I'll second the assertion that this is a great live show - 11/12/80
LA Forum btw. Also, I'll second the recommendation for the Kuhn Piano
One tracks. They're quite nice.
mike
----------
From: CHill3644@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 03:56:15 -0400
Subject: Berlin: No Holdsworth Content!
I know this is off the track for this newsgroup so I don't know if it will
get posted. Having warned everyone, I would like to know if anybody has any
info on a nasty rumor I heard several years ago.
From the first listening to Road Games, to this day, I'm still knocked out
by how cohesive and complete a recording it is. (in concept and execution)
Short and sweet, it blew my mind how all three instrumentalists integrated
their playing in the actual tunes.
However, I've since heard that Jeff Berlin's solos on the record had been
laboriously written out and practiced before their recording. If this is
true, it doesn't make them any less musical. But, it certainly goes against
the "jazz" ethos of spontaneously creating a solo. This is something I can't
understand. I've heard Berlin blowing in a live situation and I know he can
improvise his ass off. So why, oh why would he do this? I guess the reason
this rumor hurt me was because I consider Allan's music (and NOT some
well-groomed guys in Armani suits re-creating a Milesian '60s groove) a true
continuation of the jazz tradition. I mean music should look forward and be a
personal statement, rather than looking backward and canonizing the true
innovators. Does anybody know the real story?
CHill3644@aol.com <----stepping off of his soapbox
Someone
----------
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 18:03:30 bst
From: R.J.Heath@lboro.ac.uk (Richard Heath)
Subject: It does mean a thing if it don't have that swing
I think too much is made of swing being the be all and end all of jazz; I
believe it is one of several possible components which can be used in an
attempt to define certain types of jazz music. Sure swing can be important,
listening to Lionel Hampton with the Benny Goodman small groups in the late
30's/early 40'syou hear a tremendous amount of swing that gave many of the
pop standards they played, a large element of being "jazz". However,
elsewhere you hear recordings where a drummer is palying a swinging rhythm
but don't contribute much to that recording of jazz - is that rhythm always
neceasary in contributing to the "jazz-feel" of a recording or a live
performance? Not always.
I had a run-in with that excellent jazz/rock critic of the London Times
during the 80's, Richard Williams. In one of his reviews of a John
McLaughlin album, Williams stated that fusion was a spent and irrelevant
force and never been real jazz. In response to my letter objecting to this
statement, Williams brought up swing and that fusion did not swing; he also
sited a number of articles in Down Beat magazine criticising fusion for its
lack of swing. (Ironically Williams had written several liner notes for
fusion albums, including Feels Good To Me"). It appears to me that there has
been a long term campaign on the part of the established jazz-fraternity to
discredit music claiming to be jazz but lacking some syncopation. Move over
you old farts and give the other types of jazz space! To many jazz pundits,
especially some on British national radio, give the impress that they
believe jazz died with Charlie Parker or even before in the late thirties.
To quote Spike Milligan great comedian and jazzer: "jazz is not dead, it may
only smell that way". Certainly jazz is very much alive and evolving in all
directions - hip-hop, rap, acid jazz and Garbarek's experiments with
medieval church and Norwegian folk music, demonstrate that.
To me jazz does not have to swing, how many of ECM's recordings do for
instance? In fact I prefer another (imperfect) definition proposed by the
great late British jazz critic Kenneth Allsop in the 60's. To paraphase his
statement: "a jazz piece is music is based on a tune which may or may not
have a recognisable melody, rhythm, etc. (e.g. based on a standard or an
original composition). The piece will usually start providing the
recognisable form of the piece, but as the piece progresses individuals or
groups of instrumentalists will develop it by improvisation. The length of
the improvisation should be decided on the basis on how long it takes to
make a relevant statement, (hopefully) complimenting but not copying the
original tune. The theme may be then passed to another or other
instrumentalists, or come back to the original verse or chorus and be played
by the whole ensemble. Ideally the soloist knows his/her instrument so well,
that they can spontaneously produce the improvisation". Of course within the
vaguaries of this statement, all jazz styles are not defined, (i.e. heavily
arranged big band music only partly concurs with this). The music is too big
and varied to be tie it down to any one definition, let alone the word "swing".
CMP in the UK are in operation: I received review copies of the new David
Torn and Trilok Gurtu albums yesterday - my thoughts about the music at some
later date. Apparently cash flow problems and problems with CMP's partner in
the US, has lead to problems in the USA, with knock-on into Europe, e.g. my
friend their UK press officer is now redundant. Equally some of their
artistes are greatly concerned about the amount of promotion they will now get.
[ Moderator's note: My apologies. I was misinformed about CMP. --JP ]
There is a possibly that AH's newie will get a UK outlet, but too early to
give details at a delicate stage of discussion.
Finally thanks for the few who responded with tracks for the ultimate Allan
Holdsworth C90 cassette. Perhaps you will all advise me what you don't want
to hear on such tape. More please to the e-mail address above.
Dick Heath
----------
From: "Jay Collins" <5COLLINJ@stu.jmls.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 13:24:39 CST
Subject: Jobson/Zappa
Someone previously mentioned that Jobson was on a Zappa album. This
is true, the album is called "Zappa in New York." I think that was
from a Halloween Show in 1976 (or it could be 75). Anyway, it has
the brecker brothers, dave samuels and a host of other NY monsters.
As far as I can tell, that it the only official Jobson release with
Frank.
(sorry this isn't Holdsowrth related!)
[ Moderator's note: That's okay -- this issue seems to be a free-for-all.
Tangents are fine, on occasion. But I'd rather they be the exception,
than the rule. :) Btw, Ron Chrisley runs a fine mailing list, "In
The Dead Of Night," concerning U.K.; check out the FAQ on the Atavachron
Web for details (or Ron can supply this in the next issue, of course),
and there are several forums dedicated to the works of Sir Frank. --JP ]
----------
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 12:08:45 -0700
From: rpeck@pure.com (Ray Peck)
>From: Conan The Librarian
> Granted, AH's music does not usually fit into the neat rhythmic patterns
>that define "swing". Coltrane didn't do it all the time either, but I doubt
>many would say he didn't "swing".
Actually, many people did, when he started exploring past "standard
bop". There are many contemporary writings berating Coltrane for "not
playing jazz".
I'd say that hardly any of his "important" work (say, 58 and later,
and especially after 63 or so) "swings" in the "triplet" or "dotted
sixteenth" sense.
>For those of you who know Coltrane's work, think about his music from
>around the time of _Live At Byrdland_ until he went off into
>_Interstellar Space_. He was learning how to free himself from
>conventional time when creating his solo-space, but the music was
>still rooted firmly by Tyner, Garrison and Jones.
I think this is a very, very important point. This is something that
I've always really valued about both men's work. Especially between,
say, 63 and 66, Coltrane could go way "out" in his solos, but always
in a way that was rooted to the melody, and to bring it back at the
end in a natural way. This is something that Allan has that I haven't
heard in the same way in any other jazz guitarists, even folks like
Scofield.
----------
From: Jose.Douglas@turner.com
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 17:33:30 -0400
Subject: Jobson
Hi all,
Regarding Eddie Jobson, he was on Jethro Tull's "A" album, in which he
wrote some of the material. He also toured with Tull; U.K. (3 piece)
opening the shows for the Stormwatch (album before "A") tour. So that
one in So. Florida, I believe it was either 79 or 80.
Jobson also appeared with Yes on the Owner of a Lonely Heart video
though Yes brought back their original keys player and Jobson didn't
want to share playing keys and left before anything (other than the
video) was recorded.
Regards,
Jose Douglas
jose.douglas@turner.com
http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/3109/
----------
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 96 16:48:22 PST
From: "Hoard, Chris"
Subject: NTS Release Status - U.S./Europe
Marginalia -- love that word!
Yo Atavaposse:
>From: The Man Himself
>So I'm suggesting that the readership of both of these lists start getting
>in touch with some of the more stylistically-inclined print publications
>and request substantial coverage of these new albums, in an effort to gain
>maximum exposure for both Holdsworth and Torn.
A commendable and virtuous sentiment/intent is expressed above by Andre, but...
Look--I'm a tad reluctant about this, but I'll put on my (dreaded) publicist hat
here, and say--let's hold off--because timing is important, and right now the
time ain't right, IMHO.
I for one, want to wholeheardetdly leap on Andre's bandwagon today, and start-up
a publicity campaign for AH (and though often I'd deny it, I actually have some
professional experience in this area). But part of marshalling the troops (as
I'm sure Patton or Gengis Khan would say) is deciding when to strike. I'd like
it to work out so that AH gets the benefit of the publicity when the time is
right:
AH will be back from the UK next week. And I realize many readers on this list
want to help in any way possible, but it's probably better we wait as a group
for a little while before mounting a PR campaign:
** GUESS WHAT???**
I just spoke with Clair on the phone, and apparently Polydor Japan has agreed
that they will obtain an agreement to release the album within the U.S. by May 1
(which means no firm release date is yet scheduled). If they can't resolve the
issue, then the U.S./Europe rights will revert back to AH, and he apparently
will be free to release the album independently, or obtain his own licensing
agreement with a U.S. label for the U.S. and Europe. If this comes to pass
either way, than Akira Yada deserves praise for looking out and following
through for the best interests of his artist.
Some of you know I've been working to help AH establish his own independent
label--whether NTS winds up released through this entity, or another established
small US label is currently in question. For some of you who sense there may be
a conflict of interest here--I'm innocent (most of the time, anyway). I'd
rather see a more established outfit with a hungry promotion team and solid U.S.
distribution channels pick up NTS and get it out there ASAP, and get AH a decent
cash advance out of the deal. If that happens--it should be a done deal within
the next 30 days. About a month in advance of a U.S. release date, then it will
be time for as many of us who care to participate to whip up some public
attention--and especially music press kind of attention.
At that point in time it seems there will be something affordable on record
store shelves to buy! Timing is everything, some say.
Anyway--I feel we as fans/supporters of the artist--have talents, powers, and
resources to harness here (no pun intended). And from time to time, we should
use the power of the collective to assist, call attention, or support that which
interests us and engages our intellect. Anyway--I took what Clair told me as
extremely good news--and in a month or so, I think those of us that care to will
be actively involved in stirring up some publicity about NTS. I know I will.
****
Also, Chuck writes:
> As an aside (apropos to nothing in particular), besides the Henderson
>tunes and "HDITO", I was really struck by "Norwegian Wood". For my money,
.the group has captured the feel of Coltrane's takes on "My Favorite
>Things". In fact, unless my ears are failing me, the intro has a
>jazz-waltz feel that could easily segue into "MFT".
> Of course I could be wrong about all of the above.
But you're not! Chuck's mention of 'MFT' struck an uncommon chord with me
regarding "N. Wood." It's because Gordon (huge fan of McCoy Tyner, like AH),
really began the piece very much in the McCoy vein of Coltrane's 'Favorite
Things.' Anyway--this is astute, and if you asked the musicians, probably no
accident. To me, forgetting this is one of pop's great standards, the NTS
version recalls that spirit of the jazz great improvisor reinventing and taking
flight with an all-too familiar and beloved melody--a melody we're all tired of
whistling--yet somehow make astonishingly fresh and vital again. I admit I love
hearing AH and GB work this magic as much Coltrane or Jarrett--and musically
it's quite a bit more compelling than anything I've heard Wynton Marsalis do
along these lines.
****
>From: Gregory Rochford
>I was generally under the impression that AH's solos were cut from
>the whole cloth (i.e. one take), rather than patched together from
>multiple takes.
>Can anyone confirm or deny whether that specific cut is edited,
>and, in general, is that SOP (or not) for recording Allan's solos?
My guess is you're right about it being spliced--but I can't say for sure. My
impression is (having been in the studio on occasions when various solos were
being recorded) that it's the exception when a solo is edited together from
several takes. AH has expressed several times that he far prefers a solo in a
single take and usually it happens that way:
From observation, he will splice solo sections together only when 1) he plays
something so remarkable and spontaneous that trying to do it again would either
detract from the original or be impossible to recreate with the same sense of
spontaneity 2) having accomplished #1 he botches another section of the solo,
and needs to fix it, and 3) has a sufficient space where an edit is practical
but not apparent. This is usually not the case from what I've seen with his own
solo projects. Having seen him record a bunch of solos, most of the best ones I
remember all were single takes for a whole section.
Some would say splicing like this is cheating, others would say it's conserving
(or exploiting) the best takes. Technically, splicing an AH solo is a challenge
most engineers should shy away from in their right minds--but there have been
instances when AH deems it a worthy practice.
I think the "4:15" Bradford Executive was done in several sections (from
'Sand'), for example. I know there was a splice at the very end. I've observed
it's more frequent that AH considers splicing a solo--or playing it in two
sections, but then decide to burn the take and start from the top and get a
continuous solo from end-to-end. This is standard practice, but sometimes he
does record a longer solo in multiple sections, and with shorter solos I would
say rarely if ever. In the instances where I've seen him use an edit, it's
usually because the solo logically runs in two sections, or it's what he refers
to as a "tweeze" of the intro or conclusion. He's expressed the fact that when
recording a solo with listers or other musicians/producers in the room--he's
more prone to splicing--because they often say "oh that piece is brilliant--you
just can't burn that!" I know he kicked Bruford out of the studio during 'One
of A Kind' while he recorded most of the solos--probably in part because he
didn't want to wind up splicing together sections...
All4Now, CH.
----------
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 22:50:21 -0400
From: parag chakravarti
>Below comments from Mark Alpaugh:
>>
>>. Depending on what your definition of
>> "swing" is, there are those who would say Allan couldn't swing if you hung
>> him from a tree....
The opening (first 5 bars) of the AH's improvisation on "Michelle"
from Come Together (1993, NYC 6004-2) _swings_. Then at 1:32
(CD timing) it sounds like there was a splice in the tape, and
it's off to the races. Again at 1:47 it sounds like there
was another splice. Either my CD player is skipping very consistently,
the CD has a defect, or AH's solo was very masterfully edited.
(I only noticed last night when relistening to the song in preparation
for posting this message.)
I was generally under the impression that AH's solos were cut from
the whole cloth (i.e. one take), rather than patched together from
multiple takes.
Can anyone confirm or deny whether that specific cut is edited,
and, in general, is that SOP (or not) for recording Allan's solos?
thanks
gr
GR,
I listened to the cut and I am of the opinion that it is not editted,
although the first note might be. Allan has said that he hates spliced
solos, but sometimes they are nescesary, because a solo can be excellent,
and then end badly(some cuts on bundles have that "fixed up" quality
PC
asdf
----------
From: KRosser414@aol.com
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 10:53:50 -0400
Subject: Jazz Credibility
> Artists usually gain some
>credibility and visibility after they've apprenticed with some acknowledged
>jazz master.
Well, that certainly helps visibility but I think most of the credibility
comes from familiarity with the standard repetoire, in the same way that it's
impossible to be a credible barouque musician without at least some command
of Bach and Scarlatti, etc.
>Think of popular jazz guitarists-Scofield(Miles, Chet Baker,
>etc.)
Sco was being critically recognized as a major jazz figure long before his
association with Miles. Certainly being with Chet and Charles Mingus early
in his career helped his visibility a great deal.
>McLauglin (Miles).
Well, it seems to me McLaughlin has struggled on and off for years with this
"jazz credibility" business. Right now, it seems to be high because of the
organ trio, mostly because he's dipped back into the standard repetoire.
>Nobody really noticed Bill Frisell from Stone Tiger
>or Eberhard Weber until he started to work with Paul Motion and that crew.
Because they were pretty obscure bands! Frisell's real visibility
breakthrough came with playing alongside Scofield in Bass Desires, but again,
he was being critically (if not commercially) recognized as a major jazz guy
long before because of his indisputable mastery of the repetoire.
> Mike Stern released an album of standards, played with Miles, Brecker and
>others until he gained the notice of Joe Henderson.
??? Stern didn't get to release his album of standards until many, many
years after being plucked from obscurity by Miles. I remember, at the time
of his "coming out" with Miles, many complained that he had no jazz
credibility and Stern went out of his way in interview after interview to say
yes, he did know his standards and played them all the time and wished Miles
would do some just to give him a chance to prove himself. He was able to
publicize some gigs he did at the 55 Grand in NYC and allowed many audience
members to bootleg them, in hopes the word would get out. This word was
already out by the time he subbed for Metheny on Brecker's first solo tour
(after which he joined Steps Ahead with Brecker) and still long before he
released his first "official" standards record. His first association with
Henderson came about a couple years ago, when he filled in for Scofield for
some shows supporting Joe's "So Near, So Far". I hardly think that gig alone
did much for his popularity or credibility. Actually, I should say his first
jazz association with Henderson- they both did some gigs with Blood, Sweat
and Tears when Mike was still a student at Berklee.
> Pat Metheny worked with
>Gary Burton but still was scoffed at by critics until his associations with
>Ornette, Haden, Higgins,DeJohnette and Dewey Redman earned him some
>credibility.
I seem to remember critics falling all over themselves to praise Bright Size
Life, and just about everything else leading up to 80/81 (with the possible
exception of American Garage).
>Outside of Allan's 20 year old Tony Williams fusion(which many
>believe is dead)project, what associations does AH have that the jazz
>consumer will recognize and trust?
If NTS got good US distibution and good press coverage and if indeed he plays
great on the standards (I haven't heard it yet) you can bet his jazz
credibility would take a huge leap.
> I always wished Allan had worked with
>Miles to gain some attention. After Stern and Scofield he brought in Robben
>Ford and I always wished it had been AH. Did Miles know about Allan?
As has been pointed out already, Miles always wanted Stern, Sco and Ford to
play the blues, which Allan has never overtly done. Also, Miles (at this
stage) was bugged by people who would play long phrases (one of his problems
with Stern and Bob Berg).
Ken R
----------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 18:03:42 +0200
From: Michael Beauvois
Subject: Re: Tempest (Duel at Dawn)
My previous post vanished in the ether, so here's another version.
C. Hoard said words to the effect that
"AH would be alarmed if he knew that the Tempest BBC
performance with Ollie Halsall was available."
Sorry to be alarmist, but this BBC concert is available
as one of those dubious Italian 'imports'.
However, it's interesting to compare AH and Ollie's playing in a
back-to-back situation such as this concert. On some of the songs,
it's hard to tell them apart. On others, AH's playing velocity is
such as to leave Ollie standing. Perhaps the highlight of the concert
is the 10 min+ version of "Brothers" from the 1st Tempest album.
The between-songs announcer says, at one point, that Ollie had turned
up at the band practice the day before, and that they had asked him to
join the group, leaving him 24hrs to learn all the material! He copes
remarkably well, all things considered.
Mike
************************************************************************
* * Dr. Michael Beauvois * * email: beauvois@ircam.fr * *
* * * IRCAM, 31 rue St-Merri * * * Tel: (1) 44 78 48 38 * * *
* * 75004 PARIS France * * Fax: (1) 42 77 29 47 * *
************************************************************************
----------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 96 16:51:24 MST
From: masser@smtpgate.lds-az.loral.com (masser)
Subject: NTS and VS-880
Hello,
The most recent issue of Guitar Player magazine has the NTS
album listed as available thru Audio Import - See the
classified section in the back of the magazine.
Also, on a different thread - Is anyone familiar with the new
Roland VS - 880, digital audio workstation? I recently saw
some literature on this product and was very impressed. This
looks like a nice tool for all of the aspiring musicians out
there.
E-mail directly to me is ok, send to:
masser@smtpgate.lds-az.loral.com
Thanks,
--RJM.
----------
End of Atavachron Digest
Send postings to: atavachron@webster.com
Send administrative requests to: atavachron-request@addimension.com
Web page: http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 11:47:59 -0400
From: owner-atavachron@jabular.webster.com
Apparently-To: atavachron-outgoing@jabular.webster.com
To: JEFF@ADDIMENSION.COM
The New Atavachron Digest 96/05/02
Sender: owner-atavachron@webster.com
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: Jeff Preston
----------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 23:36:50 -0700
From: kessel@ix.netcom.com (Kenny Kessel )
Subject: Jeff Berlin solo on Road Games
CHill3644@aol.com wrote:
>> However, I've since heard that Jeff Berlin's solos on the
>> record had been laboriously written out and practiced before
>> their recording. ...Does anybody know the real story?
Jeff's solo on "Water on the Brain" is, IMO, one of the greatest
electric bass solos ever recorded. I remember transcribing it and
practicing it for hours on end. Shortly efter the record came out,
Chad Wackerman came to town for a clinic which I attended, and
afterwards I asked him about the solo, because there are moments in it
where the interplay between the bass and drums just seemed too amazing
to have been spontaneous, and he said that in fact Berlin overdubbed
the solo. Don't know whether his overdub was an improvised
performance, but I've always assumed it was not-- it's just too
perfect. I still love it.
----------
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 18:22:53 +1000
From: tycho@geko.net.au (Glenn Humphries)
Subject:
>Subject: Any Merchandise ???
>
>Glenn Humphries
>
>Well, I'm not going to enter into the ( David Lane ) vocalist debate, but
>can we just say they ( were, are, and continue to be great musicians) !!!,
>no matter what track, album or tours they played on ? ,
>
>Anyway just wanted to know if there are any LEGIT videos of AH and Vinnie
>Colaiuta or Chad Wackerman ? on drums and also are there any AH t shirts or
>merchandise out there ?? as I would love a AH Wardenclyffe 1993 tour top in
>XXL or XL if poss !!
Also who is on the skins in the new AH album "None Too Soon" ?
[ Moderator's note: Kirk Covington, of Tribal Tech fame. --JP ]
WRITE ME !!! tycho@geko.com.au
Thanks, and the best to you all AH Fanatics
----------
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:35:26 +0100
From: Chris Elliott
Subject: Editing 'n stuff
Following the thread of splice editing and getting it right...
I often wonder how difficult AH peceives his work is to perform, not
for the likes of we Atavachronistas, but actually for himself and
his band.
Taking into consideration the imaginitive structure of the works and
the precision and speed associated with it, does he ever consider
as Zappa once said at a live gig "...and this is a hard one to play..".
Thoughts?
Also, was AH's trip to UK anything to do with eventual UK/European
touring (bet he's sick of hearing this one), or was it just a Bradford
shopping trip?
Chris
----------
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 09:18:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert Fuhrer
Subject: Solos, AH in the studio
Hail, Atavacrew!
Well, my curiosity has been officially piqued by the discussions regarding
solo-splicing!
Although I have modest experience recording in studios, I for one would love
to hear more about AH in the creative process of recording. Of course, the
creative process starts far earlier, but with the degree of improvisation in
AH's music, there's obviously quite a bit that goes on creatively during what
we would otherwise call simply "recording". And it can be extremely
frustrating trying to "get that sound in my head down on tape", even without
any improvisation.
So, how about a "day in the studio life of AH"? Or perhaps "a day in the
life of NTS"?
Also, anyone have details on how the various regulars are involved in
particular albums? Do CW/GH/JJ/SH typically come in dry? Are they brought
in on working sessions while the material is still developing? Do they
contribute to the writing (other than via their own pieces, witness
"Questions" from WT, or their own parts)?
[I know from my own experience that many of the better ideas come out during
relatively unstructured "play time", or via interactions during more directed
work sessions. But then The Lord and maybe AH work in mysterious ways. :-)]
Now, I can imagine that having oneself "exposed" in this manner might not be
pleasant, especially for one who serves as his harshest critic, but maybe it
could be done so as not to offend in any way.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert M. Fuhrer 450 Computer Science Bldg
Computer Science Department 500 West 120th Street
Columbia University New York, NY 10027
rmf@cs.columbia.edu finger for PGP Public Key
----------
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 11:42:30 -0700
From: rpeck@pure.com (Ray Peck)
From: "Michael T. Grimes"
> (Hi Ray!) On the "A" tour, the keyboard solo that Jobson played
>was a variation on what ended up as "Colour Code" on his Zinc album.
I'll just make a note here that Mike has heard it more recently than
I, since he borrowed and dubbed my tape last year. ;-)
From: R.J.Heath@lboro.ac.uk (Richard Heath)
>great late British jazz critic Kenneth Allsop in the 60's. To paraphase his
>statement: "a jazz piece is music is based on a tune which may or may not
>have a recognisable melody, rhythm, etc. (e.g. based on a standard or an
>original composition). The piece will usually start providing the
>recognisable form of the piece, but as the piece progresses individuals or
>groups of instrumentalists will develop it by improvisation.
I still think that this definition is far too narrow. Not all jazz
has a tune (melody). Is Evan Parker jazz?
>Because they were pretty obscure bands! Frisell's real visibility
>breakthrough came with playing alongside Scofield in Bass Desires, but again,
>he was being critically (if not commercially) recognized as a major jazz guy
>long before because of his indisputable mastery of the repetoire.
I'd say that it was more from playing with John Zorn (Naked City),
'tho maybe not among the narrowest of traditionalist snobs.
----------
From: DanielIvan@aol.com
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:34:45 -0400
Subject: A Handle on Holdsworth Voicings?
** A Handle on Holdsworth Voicings? **
Hello all,
I found a book last year that might help some of you get a handle on
Holdsworth voicings: Brett Willmott's "Complete Book of Harmony, Theory, &
Voicing" (Mel Bay MB95112 $19.95).
In his video, Allan uses an analogy that relates notes in a chord to people
in a family. He associates a given chord symbol with a family of notes. While
comping, he "asks" different family members to stand up according to the
color he wishes to create. He emphasizes a "do it yourself" approach wherein
one learns to hear the usefulness of different clusters of notes according to
one's own taste.
Brett Willmott uses a similar, albeit formalized approach. In the first few
pages of his book he outlines his "Drop 2" system of voicings. He spends the
rest of the 248 page book demonstrating the use of clusters and tension
additions over various harmonic backdrops.
Why do I find his system appealing? I'll use an example to show you. (For the
purposes of this example, play all notes on the middle four strings of a
standard tuned guitar.)
Ten years ago, I fell in love with open sounding, Holdsworthian voicings like
this one:
Low to High: E-B-C-G
(Fingered: 2-4-1-3)
On the other hand, most of us learn the following familiar block chord early
in our development as musicians:
Low to High: C-G-B-E
(Fingered 1-3-2-4)
... and sometimes we feel like we never escape it.
On the first page of Chapter 1, Wilmott ties the two together with his "drop
2" system. He takes the inversions of a CMAJ7 chord...
C-E-G-B B-C-E-G G-B-C-E E-G-B-C
...and drops the second highest note to the bottom to make them playable on
the guitar.
G-C-E-B E-B-C-G C-G-B-E B-E-G-C
Low and behold,
E-B-C-G sits right next to C-G-B-E.
I now find myself solidly connected to a system of voicings that doesn't
limit me in the typical "guitaristic" fashion.
Check out the book!
Cheers,
Daniel Ford
DanielIvan@aol.com
P.S. Thanks to the guy at Rockley music in Denver who recommended it to me.
----------
Date: Fri, 26 Apr 1996 15:54:13 -0500
From: Gregory Rochford
Subject: Re:
At 09:41 PM 4/25/96 -0400, you wrote:
>From: parag chakravarti
>
>Can anyone confirm or deny whether that specific cut is edited,
>and, in general, is that SOP (or not) for recording Allan's solos?
>
>thanks
>gr
>
>GR,
> I listened to the cut and I am of the opinion that it is not editted,
>although the first note might be. Allan has said that he hates spliced
>solos, but sometimes they are nescesary, because a solo can be excellent,
>and then end badly(some cuts on bundles have that "fixed up" quality
>
>PC
>asdf
>
Well, we'll have to disagree, since to my ears at 1:32
there is a definite discontinuity in the drum part (on the downbeat
of the sixth bar of the solo). That is, not just the guitar
part was "flown in", but an entirely different take was used after
the first five bars. I'm not making a value judgement here, just looking
to see if I wasn't imagining things. I can certainly relate (with my
meager talents) to the difficulty of trying to get, in one take, a solo
that actually says something meaningful for the entire time alloted.
commenting on Chris Hoard's reply:
>usually because the solo logically runs in two sections, or it's what he
refers
>to as a "tweeze" of the intro or conclusion. He's expressed the fact that
when
>recording a solo with listers or other musicians/producers in the room--he's
>more prone to splicing--because they often say "oh that piece is
brilliant--you
>just can't burn that!" I know he kicked Bruford out of the studio during 'One
Well, IMO the beginning to that solo is _brilliant_. It makes my laugh with
joy every time I hear it.
gr
Project Technology -- Shlaer/Mellor OOA/RD
Instruction, Consulting, BridgePoint, Architectures
--------------------------------------------------------
Gregory Rochford grochford@projtech.com
5800 Campus Circle Dr. #214 voice: (214) 751-0348
Irving, TX 75063-2740 fax: (214) 518-1986
URL: http://www.projtech.com
----------
Date: 27 Apr 96 17:24:35 EDT
From: "robert l. williams, jr" <103666.2470@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: New products?
In a couple of issues of Guitar Shop magazine I read about two products
involving Allan Holdsworth. Carvin was producing a signature guitar and one
rack space chorus unit. Since then I've seen no other mention of either item.
When I called Carvin they said the guitar would be out it March. Anyone know
anything about either?
Thanks,
Robert Williams
[ Moderator's note: This is the first *I've* heard of these... anyone
else out there got a scoop? --JP ]
----------
Date: Mon, 29 Apr 1996 09:38:25 -0800
From: cmanuel@mail.educ.gov.bc.ca (Chris Manuel)
Subject: Gearhead Enquiry
Folks,
I haven't been around for awhile so I thought I'd drop in and see what's new.
I'm really excited to hear about AH's "straightahead" album. I've often
wondered what he'd sound like on standards - can't wait to find out.
My question: of those in the know, what is the master using for guitars,
amps, processing, etc for the straightahead sessions? I assume from Chris
Hoard's review that AH is still using an overdrive solo sound for the jazz
sessions. Are there any major differences in setup now?
Later
...............
Chris Manuel
Ministry of Education,
Skills and Training
cmanuel@mail.educ.gov.bc.ca
cpmanuel@islandnet.com
www.islandnet.com/~cpmanuel
----------
From: "Little, Thom/SFO"
Subject: Introduction
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 96 07:17:00 PDT
Ok
I have been lurking in the background for some time and I thought I would
sendd in a post and break up the thread on whether Holdsworth is jazzy
enough or not. He's jazzy enough for me, I listen to him and geneerally
have liked everything I have heard, obviously some better than others.
My first encounter was when I was a young lad in about 1974 and my
brother brought home everything he could find that had Allan on it. this
included the two Tony Williams albums and the first solo album.
As a 14th B'day gift he gave me a copy of Soft Machine "Bundles". By now
I was thoroughly hooked. I hunted down the Jean-Luc Ponty Album and the
quest was on. I never procured any of the rarer recordings, I wasn't as
wise and aware as some of you. I do remeeber working at a record store
and waiting feverishly for the release of U.K. Bruford was a favorite as
was Wetton. Jobson I think I may have heard on a King Crimson (probably
mistaken here). But Holdsworth teamed up with all these superstars was
just more than a pimple faced teeenager could handle.
To top things off I read where they would be in Seattle while I was
there. I got to see U.K. for $2 (that's right two dollars) at, what was
promoted as a Rising Star concet series.
I later got to see him open for Chick Diarhea in about 1987. He played
quite a bit on the new space aged "git Fiddle".
I have collected quite a few of his recordings and would love to see him
live again. I think I am frrtunate to live in the Bay Area where we get
so many talented folks to come play. I hope Allan will tour and promote
this album. I have never understood why he wasn't commercially
successful, especially with something as basic as Metal Fatigue. I
thought that, or the Road Games release would have brought him on one of
the hip shws of the time like Letterman or SNL. Let him sit in with the
"house band" and turn him loose for six minutes with Jack Bruce on Vocals
so people could relate.
Holdsworth can play, he is a Guitar guru, and instead of classifying
everything he does I just have enjoyed it. It is sometimes good to have
a simple mind. I spend less time trying to explain why I like what I
like. It just sounds good to me.
I sure enjoy reading everyone's stories and opinions.
Thom Little
P.S.
Just went to the Mike Kenealy and Beer for Dolphins show. As most of you
know Mike K. was a backup Zappa guitarist, both rhythm and lead.
Buckethead and Henry Kaiser opened the show. If you get a chance, see
all three. These guys were good together and as soloists. Buckethead
is the next coming of a guitar guru.
----------
Date: Wed, 1 May 1996 09:14:51 +1000
From: Andrew Studer
Subject: The Swing Thing
Just a few observations on the "Is Holdsworth Jazz" and "Does He Swing"
issues.
Firstly, in Australia at least (and I would suspect Europe, the UK and
possibly even Canada) most people have no trouble classifying Holdsworth
as at least loosly Jazz. Some may go on to make qualifications and throw
him more specifically into the Fusion bin, but the REAL hardline "what's
jazz and what's not" debate seems to be a disease specific to the USA. I
would guess that this is (partly) due to the presence of so many "specialist"
radio stations playing tightly formatted music. We have the same sort of thing
out here, but the number of stations (and the number of target markets) are
much less.
What this means is that you have three stations battling for the Yoof
Market (and desperately trying to find the balance of Dance/Rock/Rap/Grunge
that will maximise their audience), a couple more battling it out for the
AOR market (and desperately trying to find the balance of Billy Joel and
Mariah Carey that will maximise THEIR market), a few talkback specialists, and
a few government run and volunteer run stations.
Guess which stations the jazz programs appear on?
The absence of a jazz specific station in Australia is probably not that much
of a problem- the vibe I get from the States is that the majority of such
stations play easy listening shite- but it means that part of the "is it jazz
or not" question- namely "does this radio station play it or not"- isn't
really an issue here.
Secondly, the Establishment Jazz situation is not as big a problem here as in
the States. If you look at the equivalent Australian versions of Wynton
Marsalis for example (ie jazz "stars" who sell lots of records and have
a large general audience), you'd be looking at players like James Morrison
and Don Burrows, who, from what I can see, are fairly broad minded and don't
seem to spend their time mouthing off at other musicians. In other words,
the Marsalis/Watrous thing is just not a big deal out here. Last year, we
had a big jazz festival in Sydney (and I hope to God they have another one)
and the list of bands ran the gamut from Dixieland to Fusion to Acid Jazz.
Including a knock down finale from Max Roach. No one complained about the
variety of the program.
In short: only Americans seem to worry about this jazz thing. The rest of us,
not being American, just play the best we can and leave it at that. Holdsworth
plays jazz venues here. End of story.
-----
AND NOW- the question of SWING. There seems to be the rather misguided notion
that swing is nothing more than the dotted sixteenth "ding diga ding" ride
cymbal sound. Sorry if I'm misinterpreting previous comments but that's the
way it sounds to me.
Let's take an "establishment" jazz figure. Louis Armstrong will do. OK, he
plays the dotted sixteenth thing but what else is it about Louis that makes him
swing?
Listen to the way he solos over a rhythm section. In particular, the phrasing
and timing of his notes and their relation to the beat. Louis- and many
other players- were skilful at playing with time (in particular dragging the
beat and coming in very late). It's also a feature of many of the obvious
Name Jazz Vocalists of the era. To me, that's just as much a part of the
"swing" equation as the actual rhythms happening in the background.
Holdsworth, too, has the ability to play with his timing. I've been listening
to the UK and Bruford albums a lot recently, and I hear this a lot in the solos
on those albums- he really lets a lot of the phrases "hang", so that even in
middle of a straight 4/4 rock- oriented beat, he swings.
Well that's what I think. Again, this seems to be an element which certain
elements of the US jazz establishment complain about a lot, but the rest of
us don't really care.
Andrew Studer
studer@physics.usyd.edu.au
----------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 1996 21:32:24 -0400
From: parag chakravarti
Subject: Off Topic
Hey, everybody, it may be somewhat off topic, but the new (drummer)Simon
Phillips album is quite good, and features a IMO somewhat Holdsworthian
guitarist named Ray Russell
PC
asdf
----------
From: MaxStrubel@aol.com
Date: Thu, 2 May 1996 11:04:33 -0400
Subject: Re: music/philosophy
Who really cares is it "swings" ? Two Guitar Player interviews give succinct
statements
regarding Allan Holdsworth's music (Dec. 1980 & Dec. 1982). After stating
that he never
had taken lessons, he adds, ' It's sort of my nature to not ask for
information-even if I'm
dying to find something out. I like to discover things.' When queried about
advice for
aspiring guitarists, he said ' Really search yourself out. Go for the
essence of things, and don't really worry about what others are up to. Try
to look at it like, "This is a certain standard, so I should try to be more
than that", but without going the same way.' I think the definitive
statement was made when asked whether guitar playing should be more of a
science than an emotional outlet. His response was 'Oh, no! It's got to be
emotional. If I had wanted to get into science, I would have been a
mathematician. It's got to make you laugh or cry, or both.' Music is an
emotional outlet, and if it moves me I enjoy it. Whether it's Little Wing,
Joshua, Naima, or Love Me Tender, it has to stir feelings. This transcends
any labels that might be attached to the music which best serve as dividers
in record store bins. So leave the swinging to pendulums in physics
experiments and those who need labels to define their existence. Long live
independent creative spirit. Long live Allan.
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End of Atavachron Digest
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