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Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 157
Thursday, 1 June 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
More about the move
Re: #2(2) Atavachron Digest Number 156
Homogenous Holdsworth
Sound Design and Roland's VG-8
Re: Melody & Boredom
Re: Melody and "Boredom"
Tribal Tech's Reality Check
Re: Melody and "Boredom"
Web site moved; no casualties
Re: boredom ?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 02:27:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: More about the move
Since I haven't heard any strong objections otherwise, I'll be
moving the Web site on June 1st -- the mail lists will stay here
at MSU for a little while longer. There will be a redirection link
at the present Web site, which will probably remain for several
months, so we'll still be easy to find. :)
The mailing lists will likely be merged and moved within the next
couple of months, so stay tuned.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/home.html
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Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 18:30:59 -0400
From: MerdadP@aol.com
Subject: Re: #2(2) Atavachron Digest Number 156
A remarka dn a question.
First: what is melody? Interesting when you consider that perhaps AH's
melodies are just longer than the ones you hear in a commercial. In other
words, whereas most of us are used to listening to a melody that lasts about,
oh, half a measure or so on that Coke commercial, Allan's (ant I think most
interesting) music has longer melodies. Put in "Home" off of "Metal Fatigue"
and then just listen to the length of the melody. Yes, it may be hard to
follow the melody if you are watching TV at the same time, but if you are
listening to the music, you can hear and appreciate a nice long melody. Some
of us even whistle them!
Second, has Allan ever thought of putting out charts for his music? I'm sure
there are a number of us who would love to sit down and get cramps in our
hands trying to chord some of his stuff. I loved "reaching for the uncommon
chord," but I think there are many of us who would love transcribed tunes
(besides those out there who have no trouble spending hours figuring out what
he's playing-- Am9dim7#11#35b67sus22^2).And no, I don't mean the
transcriptions at the ftp sites, well meaning tho they are.
Merdad
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Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 19:08:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andre LaFosse
Subject: Homogenous Holdsworth
With regards to the thread concerning boredom with Holdsworth's music...
In my opinion, the material Holdsworth has been writing over the last few
years has tended towards a very open-ended, homogenous sort of
similarity. In particular, I find _Hard Hat Area_ to be markedly devoid
of elements that a listener can grasp onto (i.e. "hooks") -- the tunes
(such as they are) basically serve as vehicles for soloing. A perfect
example of this is "Rukukkuh" -- "Okay, suckers, here's your head:
*blinding burst of notes for two seconds* Head's over! Three-minute
solos!"
Holdsworth's music has rarely been a prime example of dynamic contrast;
even much of his finest material tends to exhibit a sense of being in one
place and staying there, rather than starting off somewhere and going
someplace else, before possibly ending up someplace completely different.
This sort of lack of variety or contrast doesn't help to focus one's
attention on the music. Holdsworth alluded to this himself in the
_Secrets_-era _Guitar Player_ cover story, in which he said he really
liked Wackerman's "Peril Premonition" because (this is a rough quote) "it
keeps feeling like something's going to happen, as opposed to my music,
where nothing keeps on happening." A bit overly harsh in his
self-assesment (as usual), but still rather on the mark.
Furthermore, I just don't feel that Steve Hunt is on par with Holdsworth
as a soloist; both on record and in live performance, I can't help
but feel that his presence is more perfunctory than anything else. He's
certainly not *bad*, by any means, but I don't get the feeling that his
work says anything that Allan's doesn't already say, and say much more
effectively. And that, in my opinion, more or less eliminates the whole
point of having a second soloist.
When I think of my favorite Holdsworth music -- anything from _I.O.U._;
"Devil," "UnMerry-Go-Round," or the title track from _Metal Fatigue_;
"Sand," "Pud Wud," or "Clown" from _Sand_; or later pieces like
"Wardenclyffe Tower," I realize that one of the aspects that they all have
in common is a decidedly sophisticated sense of composition and order, and
in particular, *contrast*. _I.O.U._, in particular, is a fabulous album
in that regard. Rather ironically, it took me a very long time before I
could listen to the record because of its constantly-shifting textures,
harmonies, and dynamics, but I now find that one of the most appealing
aspects of the record. As with most of Holdsworth's music, the harmonies
are achingly beautiful, the soloing otherwordly; but the pieces themselves
exhibit a sort of sophistication of composition and arrangement that is
anything but monotonous. You may love _I.O.U._, and you may be unable to
stand it -- I've been in both situations -- but the nature of the
composition dictates that you can't ignore it.
By contrast, many of Allan's later pieces tend to contain wonderful ideas
that are never really developed anywhere. The prime example of this that
comes to mind is "5 to 10," the first track from _Wardenclyffe Tower_.
The beginning is fantastic -- a great atmosphere, nice textures, etc. But
then it turns into a jazz-form solo fest that, in spite of Allan's
wonderful-as-usual soloing, doesn't really take the piece anywhere new.
Worst of all, there's the infamous "jazz fan"/toilet flush bit, rather than
a "real" ending or resolution to the piece. To my ears, it sounds like
Allan couldn't figure out how to end the tune (or even develop it), so he
opted for a joke instead. Some may find it cute, but I find it pretty
distasteful, and a tremendous waste of good compositional raw material.
(I wonder what Steve Hunt thought when he learned that his solo was being
cut in on by a bathroom joke.)
Obviously not all of his tunes use a sound-bite practical joke as their
conclusion, but there is a similar sense of static non-evolution present
in most of his material, particularly that from the last two or three
albums. Perhaps this is what Holdsworth is after; perhaps he doesn't
possess the skills in arrangement that he had twelve years ago (though I
doubt it); perhaps he simply doesn't care. I don't know. But under the
circumstances, it's easy to understand how his current material can invoke
a certain lack of attention on the part of the listener. If music
doesn't capture your imagination, then you won't want to capture the music.
--Andre LaFosse
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Date: Mon, 29 May 1995 19:48:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andre LaFosse
Subject: Sound Design and Roland's VG-8
I agree that Allan's choice of synthesizer sounds is considerably more
intriguing than that of most synthesists, keyboard-based or otherwise. I
don't always agree with his choice of tones (the lead sound he uses on the
tune "Wardenclyffe Tower" is a prime contender for Most Annoying Patch
Ever Documented on Tape), but his timbres almost never suffer from the
run-of-the-mill, "Oh yeah, that's General MIDI Number 23" syndrome that
becomes so problematic when using a sound device that has been loaded with
factory presets.
I think this can be attributed to the fact that Holdsworth turned to
synthesis technology as a sort of escape from the limitations of his
"real" instrument, so he had a considerable inclination to undertake the
often daunting task of delving into the actual synthesis engines of his
units, rather than use a set of stock factory presets.
For my money, _Sand_ is the most satisfying of the SynthAxe albums from an
overall musical standpoint, although _Atavachron_ and _Secrets_ are
probably a better place to look for unusual sounds and textures. The
album _Atavachron_, in particular, has an extremely ideosyncratic
combination of timbres and harmonies. It's probably second only to
_I.O.U._ for me as far as potentially unlistenable Holdsworth music goes.
I've never come across another album that *sounds* like it, and that's
mainly due to the synth sounds. I transcribed the song "Atavachron" for a
class, and even after working with the instructor for an hour, we couldn't
quite figure out whether or not some of the notes in the chords were
really *there*, or if they were exotic overtones generated by the timbres.
_Secrets_, on the other hand, is probably Holdsworth's most accessible
album, which may in part have something to do with the very warm,
dark-hued nature of the synth sounds. "Endomorph," in particular, comes
to mind as being one of the most effective SynthAxe tunes Allan has done.
Incidentally, I tried out Roland's new VG-8 (which is not technically a
guitar synth, which is ironic, since it produces sound by *literally*
synthesizing the sound of the guitar itself), which Allan had previously
endorsed before Roland took the model back and Stone Temple Pilots took up
a side job as fusion benefactors. The tracking is flawless, and the
sensitivity is far better than any MIDI or pitch-to-voltage guitar
interface I've ever tried; it makes using my GR-50 feel like I'm playing
with electrical gloves on. In spite of this, I can see where Allan might
not have been overwhelmed by the unit for his own purposes, largely since
Roland seems to be pushing the notion of using the unit as a simulator of
real guitar rigs rather than as a source for non-guitaristic, synth-type
tones. That certainly seemed to be the most impressive aspect of the VG-8
from a performance standpoint. The "synth" sounds were generally very
nice, and responsive to playing nuances, but the depth of user interface
seemed somewhat limited regarding the potential for sound-shaping. And
since it doesn't actually transmit information in terms of MIDI events,
there are certain types of real-time, performance-oriented means of sound
manipulation (such as hitting a chord and then sustaining it using an
onboard hold button, which is a Holdsworth trademark) which I don't believe
are available through V-guitar technology.
It looks like the SynthAxe is still the ultimate weapon for what
Holdsworth wants out of a guitar synth. (Besides, it's always a hoot to
see a picture of the man with his obligatory stony gaze staring down the
camera -- and a tube sticking out of his mouth.) But I *still* want to know
where STP found one for him!
--Andre LaFosse
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Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 10:29:57 -0500
From: uchima@fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Subject: Re: Melody & Boredom
KingsleyD@aol.com wrote:
> RE: melody. Many years ago I worked with a woman who insisted that the only
> music she could stand to listen to was music that had an easily memorable
> melody - in fact, she thought that commercials were probably her favorite
> form of music. (Honest!) Her brother listened to Holdsworth, and she thought
> it was the most horrible stuff she had ever heard; it was all noise to her.
> My wife feels similarly, because she can't hear in AH any of the sort of
> thing that she defines as "music." But I listen to, say, "Hard Hat Area,"
> and I hear melody *all over the place.* Ditto Torn's "Polytown", where it's
> even *less* apparent than in AH music. So, to some extent, melody is in the
> ear of the beholder. In fact, the reason that I love Holdsworth and have
> little or no time for most other "legato distortion" guitarists is precisely
> because of (what I perceive to be) the appealing melodical content of his
> music, solos included. Now, Mark, is that because of my accumulated
> listening experience, or is that because Holdsworth's music stimulates some
> part of my brain that's hard-wired? My guess is that both are involved -
> aren't there some psychologists who are beginning to look at how experience
> actually modifies the structure of the brain?
I've known my wife since we were teenagers. Back when we were in high school
and college, we listened to pretty much the same music (i.e., Rush, Van Halen,
Heart, etc.). Over the past 10 years or so, our musical tastes have diverged,
with mine veering off into fusion, and hers tending towards Celtic folk music;
the running joke is that all the CDs I buy now come from CMP and ECM, and hers
come from Green Linnet (an Irish music label). Her take on Holdsworth (and a
lot of the other stuff I listen to now) is pretty much the same as the above
-- she complains that it has "no melody". I guess my point is that if
"accumulated listening experience" was the key, then why the divergence? We
listened to essentially the same music for years.
Another personal experience that I think supports the "hard-wired" theory: My
daughter (who is 9) can't carry a tune to save her life. Yet, my son (who has
been exposed to essentially the same external influences, musical and
otherwise) has been humming the guitar solos to songs he hears on the radio
since he was about 3. (He also commented the other day that he liked a David
Torn CD I was playing; my wife and daughter basically can't stand Torn.)
I don't mean to totally discount the "experience" side of things. I just tend
to believe that there's something hard-wired that makes certain people more
likely to "get into" music, in the sense that they pay enough attention that
they can pick out the structure and/or melody in a piece of music -- even when
the structure isn't as obvious as in, say, a TV commercial jingle.
-- Mike Uchima
-- uchima@fnal.fnal.gov
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 18:55:21 -0400
From: AHubert@aol.com
Subject: Re: Melody and "Boredom"
Ravi Shankar has commented that westerners often have difficulty with
classical indian and other "exotic" musics because there exists no distinct
"melody" involved in the music; that much of world music outside of the
western modality involves textures, noises, moods, sounds, "ambience."
Personally, I hear a whole ocean of melodies every time I listen to
Holdsworth. I think the concept of "melody" needs to be rethought, perhaps.
When I think of "melody" I think of "hook." Pop music is full of such
trinkets. While not denigrating "hook" type music (hell, some of the most
simple minded crap still works on me, like Elastica) I prefer material that
is concerned first with finding "melodies" that haven't yet been created. I
don't need to leave a concert humming the tunes. I am more concerned with
*voice* than melody. And AH's voice is one of the few that can send chills
down my spine. I really appreciate that!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Steve_Vaughan@ilink.demon.co.uk
Date: Wed, 31 May 95 13:56:10 GMT
Subject: Tribal Tech's Reality Check
Just got hold of a copy of "Reality Check" by Tribal Tech. Sleeve
notes give thanks to Allan Holdsworth. Anyone know what for? Just for
being Allan Holdsworth perhaps?
Incidentally , it's a fine album. Starts with "Stella by Starlight",
second track "Stella by Infra-Red High Particle Neutron Beam", which
is a real ear-fryer.
While I'm at it - anyone know how I can get onto "Elephant Talk", the
King Crimson list, and I believe there's a Steely Dan list out there
too?
Help would be appreciated,
Steve Vaughan
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Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 09:58:40 -0500
From: uchima@fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Subject: Re: Melody and "Boredom"
AHubert@aol.com wrote:
> Ravi Shankar has commented that westerners often have difficulty with
> classical indian and other "exotic" musics because there exists no distinct
> "melody" involved in the music; that much of world music outside of the
> western modality involves textures, noises, moods, sounds, "ambience."
> Personally, I hear a whole ocean of melodies every time I listen to
> Holdsworth. I think the concept of "melody" needs to be rethought, perhaps.
> When I think of "melody" I think of "hook."
In my opinion, you're very close to the mark with this. I suspect that many
people -- if they don't hear a "hook" in the first 15 seconds or so --
conclude that a piece of music has "no structure" or "no melody", and dismiss
the music on that basis. Others use a much broader definition of melody --
something along the lines of "a set of notes (or sounds) which have a pleasing
effect when played in sequence".
A couple of years ago, I loaned my copy of _Atavachron_ to the guy I share my
office with. His comment was something along the lines of, "I thought it was
interesting, but I generally prefer music that has some sort of *melody*." I
was sort of puzzled by this comment, until I realized that he was probably
using a different definition of "melody".
Might also have something to do with the fact that you have to pay more
attention (and listen longer) to hear the structure in music such as Allan's.
Some people probably just don't have the desire and/or patience to listen more
closely.
-- Mike Uchima
-- uchima@fnal.fnal.gov
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 11:11:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Web site moved; no casualties
As some of you are probably already aware, the Atavachron WWW server
is now located at:
http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
I have pages on the MSU server (AtavaWWW's former home) which point
to the ADdimension server, but they will be removed on July 1st, so
update your bookmark/hotlink files, please!
Due to an oversight on my part, the May archives aren't yet on the
new site's server; that should be corrected sometime tonight. :)
Hopefully most of you will notice a marked increase in performance
at the ADdimension site; it's running the much faster and "wider"
WebSTAR 1.1 Web server software from StarNINE Technologies, and the
server itself is connected via a 128K ISDN line (as opposed to MSU's
56Kbps DDS circuit -- and at the moment, that 128K line is basically
"all yours" -- there'll be very little competition for bandwidth on
the line at present, but we do hope that will change, of course!).
If anyone should notice any broken links or missing GIFs, please
let me know. Please stay tuned for further planned enhancements and
features through the coming summer months!
Jeff
(the Atavachron moderator/maintainer guy
... and VP of Research & Development, ADdimension, Inc.)
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ New Site! http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 11:44:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: X90LESAGE@wmich.edu
Subject: Re: boredom ?
Mike Coughlin identified a lack of intramusician varibility. That is, a lack
of variability between the styles of group members. Great point! Maybe one
move Allan could make to increase variability and decrease boredom is get rid
of Steve Hunt. However, I happen to like Hunt's playing, so I would miss him
if did leave.
Regards,
Mark LeSage |
Department of Psychology | "...when [introspectionists] come to
Western Michigan University | analyze consciousness, naturally they find in
Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | it just what they put into it."
Tel: 616-387-4503 |
email: x90lesage@wmich.edu | J.B. Watson (1924, p. 4)
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Tour Dates for Japan, Australia and more are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 158
Monday, 5 June 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Re: boredom ?
Re: boredom ?
Re: Melody & Boredom
Boring Boredom Thread
ponty, clarke & dimeola
Re: Melody & Boredom
Tribal Tech/Henderson's Thanks
Holdsworth Tidbits (fwd)
Atavachron WWW problems? Talk to me, people...
Sound samples disabled (at least temporarily)
Re: Sound samples disabled (at least temporarily)
Re: Sound samples disabled (at least temporarily)
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Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 13:10:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: 3rdStone <3rdstone@io.com>
Subject: Re: boredom ?
On Thu, 1 Jun 1995 Mark LeSage wrote:
> Maybe one move Allan could make to increase variability and decrease
> boredom is get rid of Steve Hunt.
Ouch.. Think he'll go for it?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 15:10:49 EDT
From: Daniel Ginsberg
Subject: Re: boredom ?
Geeez..... Ya'll don't gotta like Steve Hunt but he really gets
the heck flamed outta him around here and unfairly so. If ya want to
hear Allan in fresher surroundings then ya might really want him to
step away from the fairly closed circle that he usually works with
in its entirety. Or ya might just sit back and wait for the new album
with Beck et al *drool*. But either way, I don't think savaging SH
will pay rich rewards for anyone.
Dan
dginsber@uconnvm.uconn.edu
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Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 15:00:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: X90LESAGE@wmich.edu
Subject: Re: Melody & Boredom
This post probably best belongs on a list regarding music in general. But,
it is relevant to the recent thread.
Kingsley,
You are right. There is a large body of literature on neuronal plasticity.
Although physiological psychology is not my area of expertise, the basic
notion is that experience (ie, environmental stimulation) alters neuronal
morphology (structure) and chemistry, such that new parts of neurons "grow"
or otherwise change structurally and, moreover, more or less neurochemicals
are produced. Such changes are real (observable) and appear to play a role in
the mechanisms through which we learn (including learning to like certain
types of music I suppose). But, realize that the ultimate cause lies in the
environment, your unique listening experience. Thus, your distinction
between experience and brain mechanisms is a false dichotomy, experience
(environmental stimulation) shapes our nervous system. So, you are right in
that both play a role. They have to, for they are in separable.
Our knowledge of the nervous system is a long way from providing us the means
to figure out what is going on physiologically when people acquire tastes for
certain types of music. But our understanding of the ways in which the
environment influences our behavior provides much insight into the ontogeny
(development) of music-listening behavior. Behavior Analysts have produced
a substantial literature that demonstrates the principles by which behavior is
changed by the environment and offers what I think to be
the best system for analyzing/understanding music-related behavior (playing
or listening). Realize, that I'm just begining to apply such a system to
this problem and, therefore, do not have all the answers. Moreover, many
people are likely to disagree with the conceptual system to which I adhere,
for it is firmly rooted in Skinnerian psychology (Behaviorism). Having said
that, I'm sure I just lost a substantial proportion of the popularity vote ;)
This is unfortunate.
Everyone that has contributed to this thread has made important points. I
feel very fortunate to be involved with so many sensative observers. You all
have a lot to offer in one of many of mans quests for understanding, the
quest to understand creativity and its appreciation. My contribution will be
to make sure that our environment (physical or social) is not overlooked
and to point out explanatory fictions.
I must go now. But, I will return.
Desultorily Yours :)
Mark LeSage |
Department of Psychology | "...when [introspectionists] come to
Western Michigan University | analyze consciousness, naturally they find in
Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | it just what they put into it."
Tel: 616-387-4503 |
email: x90lesage@wmich.edu | J.B. Watson (1924, p. 4)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 13:25:05 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Boring Boredom Thread
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
Actually, I haven't found this thread boring at all, but couldn't resist the
(sort of) pun in the subject line.
One of the reasons I tend to lose focus when listening to Holdsworth is the
smoothness of his tone. His conscious decision to try to eradicate the pick
attack has severely limited is tone shaping to electronic rather physical
means. Although his lines are exciting and his harmonic choices are "Three
Sheets" beyond my comprehension I still wish for some more guitaristic tonal
stuff. The blues players seem to have pick-and-fingers tone shaping like no
one else. BB King gets so many timbral nuances out of a very limited harmonic
palette- if AH pulled in some of that stuff it might illuminate what he's tryi
ng to do.
AH's fascination with wind instruments, and his desire to sound like one, has
sent him down the processor path, probably too far, in my opinion. If he were
to run a heavier string guage, dial back the compression, and add a little
more frequency range to his sound, it might open up a bit more. I'm talking
about subtle changes as I really, really love his sound (except for its
timbral homogeneity).
Another area which might open up his music is working in other rhythmic
environments. The free time drumming that he seems to love to work with allows
for very little rhythm tension and release in his soloing. If you're not sure
where one is, it's hard to hear the soloist forcing the bar lines.
Weather Report was mentioned as a band that could maintain intensity over a
longer duration. I would agree with that assessment; they used much more
structured tunes (during their heyday) with really interesting writing for the
ensemble parts. When someone broke out and soloedit was exciting because it wa
s a contrast to the structured writing. A lot of the time, the heads of AH's
tunes sound like solos, offering no contrast to the "real" solo.
These are my thoughts. Take them for what they're worth. (Hah!)
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cpmanuel@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca
http://eps.gov.bc.ca:3893/~cpmanuel/Chris/INDEX.HTML
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 16:24:23 -0500
From: Mike Coughlin
Subject: ponty, clarke & dimeola
yes these guys are touring together in an acoustic trio under the
name 'rite of strings'. they toured last summer as well. being in
america where music that doesn't sound like john tesch or nirvana
doesn't get any media attention, we wouldn't have known. i saw them
at the north sea jazz fest (the best in the world if you havent
been...) last year and they were great.
lemme add some allan content here...
i was recently reading an interview with les paul where he was saying
that he almost always finds his first take on a solo to be the best.
i think that's why my favorite allan stuff usually turns out to be
bootleg. that seems to be the only time you ever hear a solo he
hasn't tortured himself over...imho
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: Melody & Boredom
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 21:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
I see someone recently brought up Pat Metheny in the discussion
about the guitar having relatively less dynamics than a wind
instrument. Pat revealed that he learned from Ornette Coleman
a useful secret; never play two consecutive notes at exactly
the same volume - goes to a long way towards making the
guitar "breathe" more.
A lot of guitar players do tend to solo at a fairly consistent
volume level except perhaps blues masters who go from a soft
whisper to a testifying scream in the space of a few seconds.
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 13:29:19 -0400
From: gklein@inch.com (gary klein)
Subject: Tribal Tech/Henderson's Thanks
>Just got hold of a copy of "Reality Check" by Tribal Tech. Sleeve
>notes give thanks to Allan Holdsworth. Anyone know what for? Just for
> being Allan Holdsworth perhaps?
I know that on some of Tribal Tech's earlier albums Henderson got a
lot of help with his sound from Holdsworth (always get help from the
best!). They go for a similar singing tone and share a lot of equipment
preferences or former preferences (Boogie/Ibanez etc). For me, Henderson is
one of, if not the only guitarist who approaches AH for shear sonic beauty
and power. This is really just thinking sound and not musical content.
I've been lurking for a little while now and I'm surprised this is
the first time Henderson's name has come up. For those of you who are
looking for a slightly more metal/shred but still playing over changes
approach, Hendersons your man. This is probably not true of the latest CD
but check out some of the slightly earlier ones like Illicit and Face
First. The earliest ones like Dr. Hee and Spears have some excellent guitar
playing on them but are compositionally closer to Weather Report or Chick
Corea (tho' heavier) than heavy metal be-bop.
Not to mention the fact that Holdsworth is employing most of the
rest of Tribal Tech in the tour, of course.
>... and I believe there's a Steely Dan list out there too?
Yes, and a homepage associated with it!
list: steely-dan-request@uiuc.edu
page: http://itchy.hrfs.uiuc.edu/dandom.html
Gary Klein
gklein@inch.com
NY, NY
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 1995 12:36:41 EDT
From: UGER92A@prodigy.com (MR TERRENCE A MAY)
Subject: Holdsworth Tidbits (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 1995 00:37:41 EDT
From: MR TERRENCE A MAY
To: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Subject: Holdsworth Tidbits
Here are some tidbits that may be of interest to the
Atavachron community.
1. What do the following song titles have in common?
A. Percolations (Gong)
B. Tokyo Dream (AH)
C. In The Mystery (AH)
2. Did you know that AH recorded for none other than Boz
Scaggs? Boz man liked Allan's work so much that he erased
it and brought in Michael Landau. Go figure ....
3. There is an unreleased studio recording of the song
"Water on the Brain" with Paul Williams on vocals. It was
recorded on the first IOU album, but, interestingly, Allan
rejected it for some reason. Does anyone know why?
4. There are 3 "official" releases by drummer John Stevens
feature AH. BUT, there is another unreleased session with
John Stevens which has Allan playing acoustic 12-string
guitar! Highly unusual, to say the least.
5. Re: "Michelle" on "Come Together: Guitar Tribute to
the
Beatles" (CD) - - the piano track by the scandalously
underrated Gordon Beck was recorded almost 2 years ago.
Did
you know that Gordon recorded about 40 SOLO piano tracks
for
Allan at his house for possible future use? Allan added
the
bass and drums--and then himself--to that original track of
Gordon's and then gave the final product to the "Come
Together" project.
6. There are 2 "official" releases by Andrea Marcelli
feature Allan. How many of you knew that there is another
(3rd) UNRELEASED session lost somewhere in the vaults?
For those of you who haven't figured out the answer to item
#1, Allan plays PEDAL STEEL GUITAR on all three tracks.
Now, I must admit, I never knew he was such a countryfied
gentlemen!
TERRENCE MAY
UGER92A@prodigy.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 18:18:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Atavachron WWW problems? Talk to me, people...
I've had a few reports of people getting incomplete transfers from
the new Web server. If anyone reading this has had that problem, I'd
*really* appreciate a brief note from you, describing the problem --
and *especially* what kind of connection you have (i.e. 14.4 modem on
a SLIP connection, etc.). I suspect that we don't have our timeout
value set high enough to accomodate these slower connections, but I'd
like to get some feedback before we proceed; any help appreciated!
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ New Site! http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 21:33:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Sound samples disabled (at least temporarily)
There is some talk about BMI looking into unauthorized use of audio
clips on WWW sites, with a slant toward collecting royalties. With
that possibility on the horizon, I have disabled the sound samples
on our site until there is a clear manner in which to proceed. I am
writing to BMI this evening in hopes that they will be willing to
enter into a discussion on the subject.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ New Site! http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Paul Morris"
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 23:26:52 +0000
Subject: Re: Sound samples disabled (at least temporarily)
good luck in your negotations! Let's hope reasonableness will
prevail. The musician(s) should have some say in the matter as well.
It figures that the net's honeymoon (media-wise) would sooner or
later attract attention that would expose the $jugular.
P.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 95 00:28:42 EDT
From: Daniel Ginsberg
Subject: Re: Sound samples disabled (at least temporarily)
Gee, Jeff, one would think that they would pay YOU for helping
their sales!! Talley up the hours ya put inna the page, give them
some numbers about list distribution and web-page use and bill them
right back!
dan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I ========= End of Atavachron Digest =========
\ :::: ]I[ :::: /
: ::::::: ]] [[ ::::::: : Administrative requests to:
::: ]] [[ ::: listserv@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
''::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::''
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ ::: Postings to:
::: =a=t=a=v=a=c=h=r=o=n= ::: atavachron@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
,,::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::,, For more info, send HELP as first
::: ]] [[ ::: line in e-mail to the listserv above.
: :::::: ]] . [[ :::::: :
/ :: ] ::: [ :: \ All opinions expressed herein are
I I those of the individual contributors.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Japan, Australia and more are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 159
Monday, 12 June 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
addiction vs. boredom
rhythm
Boring tones and Girly Man(tm) brand strings......
Re: Boring tones and Girly Man(tm) brand strings......
Re: addiction vs. boredom
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 158
Chad on tour? That's the (unconfirmed) rumor...
One admission to Belly-Up Show for free!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 1995 20:09:34 +0200
From: rene@via.nl (Rene Janssen)
Subject: addiction vs. boredom
Hi,
I've read that some guys in this newsgroup sometimes suffer from boredness
due to whatever reasons..
I do not yet have that with AH. In contradiction , I am totally addicted
to his last record HHA (ah..hha ;) And its been out quit a while now. I can
listen to it over an over again without getting thoughts like : yes , I've
heard it now. I think its the incredibal melodic richness of AH combined with
good crystal clear 'live' sound that does it. I just wish Secrets (ADD) was
recorded like this ! I am a little disappointed about the drum sound of
Secrets right now. But that is just a matter of taste...
I think the best way to listen and enjoy his records (and others in general
) is trying to eliminate the musician in yourself (if you are one..). Alot
of musicians tend to focus to their instrument, and so they miss the whole
picture or parts of it. This is not always easy..
A good 'cure' for this is to focus a little towards an instrument that is
not you're native one.. ( does that make sense ? )
Well.. I look forward to a (possible ? ) European tour. Could someone
please kick AH's butt and tell him that its about time to come here ?
I was reading the North Sea Jazz festival program lately, which disappoints
me a little. There isn't alot of avantgarde fusion/jazzrock anymore like
couple a years ago.. While spitting the program ( 6 stages, 3 days, 1000
musicians ) Ive read about Bela Fleck ( banjo) and the flecktones featuring
Roy Wooten on Synth-Axe and drumitar. Whats this ? Does anybody know if its
worth listening to ?
Rene.
rene@via.nl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 10:02:25 +1000
From: Michael Ibrahim
Subject: rhythm
>Another area which might open up his music is working in other rhythmic
>environments. The free time drumming that he seems to love to work with allows
>for very little rhythm tension and release in his soloing. If you're not sure
>where one is, it's hard to hear the soloist forcing the bar lines.
It's funny that you should mention rhythm because a friend of mine was
commenting the other day that the only thing he has against Allan's playing is
that he doesn't really play with the time very much. When I say time I don't
mean meter, I mean rhythmic groupings. Allan does tend to group things in
fours. I know what he's talking about, but I don't know if that really bugs me
enough to actually worry about it. I guess improvising rhythmically is much
harder than improvising harmonically, or at least that's what I find. If I
concentrate hard enough, I can come up with lines which are "original", but I
find that I tend to play those lines in set rhythmic patterns that I just can't
get away from.
Comments?...
Miko.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 1995 23:50:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: cmcdonald@sunbelt.net (Chip McDonald)
Subject: Boring tones and Girly Man(tm) brand strings......
WARNING: VERY LONG, NON SCIENTIFIC/OPINIONATED
WRITING FOLLOWS.
>From: "Chris Manuel"
>
>Sheets" beyond my comprehension I still wish for some more guitaristic tonal
>stuff. The blues players seem to have pick-and-fingers tone shaping like no
>one else. BB King gets so many timbral nuances out of a very limited harmonic
>palette- if AH pulled in some of that stuff it might illuminate what he's tryi
>ng to do.
Hmmm..... I have to disagree with you here, Chris. I think he gets
as many timbral changes in his tone as BB gets, just in a more subtle way.
Listen to the d# at :008-:009 on the head of City Nights. It sounds
like the overtone series changes right there, but not on the following d#.
He does that often, it's something I haven't heard many people do except
maybe Eric Johnson. I also like the various ways he lets the attack
develope on the the note (I call it "bloom", the thing Boogies do well).
It's not as obvious as BB getting a little bit of a artificial harmonic in a
note, but to me it's more original and innovative.
>AH's fascination with wind instruments, and his desire to sound like one, has
>sent him down the processor path, probably too far, in my opinion. If he were
>to run a heavier string guage, dial back the compression, and add a little
>more frequency range to his sound, it might open up a bit more. I'm talking
Ok, your're going to love this (along with all the other "heavy strings =
tone" set).
I think light gauges sound better than heavy gauges when using lots of gain.
("Heresy!!" "He speaks from the devil!" "confused, the man is" "the dude
uses those wimp strings")
I also believe the difference between a note plucked with equal force on
two identical guitars, one with .009s and one with .011s is inaudible.
However, I think heavy strings sustain longer and have more output (of course).
So on a semi overdriven tone, when you bend it reacts differently, because
the note isn't dying out as fast. With a bunch of distortion,
I don't think there's a timbral difference. AH of course uses a fair
amount of gain, so i don't personally think that sustain is an issue with him.
I also think they (heavier strings) intonate better, and sound better when
picked aggressively because the note stays in tune better
immediately after it is picked. I think in AH's situation - being that he
effectively never picks anything - this isn't an issue for him.
Because of the added tension of the string, it of course requires a greater
initial effort to start a note. I feel there is a range of tones that are
dependent upon how hard the note is attacked. I do think this is hearable
with alot of distortion, if things are set up right, but that heavier
strings offer a narrower range to maneuver in because of the natural limits
of the human hand. In other words, there's a point where the string isn't
going to kick out any more voltage, but it's alot closer the point where one
can just lightly tap the string than a lighter string. I can get .009's
to change timbre by varying the pressure that I'm using to finger the note
(assuming all other things are "right"), but with .010's it's more
difficult, and .011's impossible. You have to hit the note so hard that you
can't vary the rate at which the note dies out.
I wish there was a guitar that I could string with .011's for chordal stuff
for the accurate intonation and the even sustain, and then have .009's for
lead.
Heck, I would use .008's if they wouldn't break so easily and were not so
difficult to control, pitch wise.
Since AH seldom bends, I don't think that's an issue for him. And I admire
his great delicacy in chording on light gauge strings with near perfect
intonation - particularly considering the stretches involved.
>Another area which might open up his music is working in other rhythmic
>environments. The free time drumming that he seems to love to work with allows
>for very little rhythm tension and release in his soloing. If you're not sure
>where one is, it's hard to hear the soloist forcing the bar lines.
Geez, Chris! I think the free time stuff greatly enhances the
rhythmic tension. For me it's a matter of the subtlety of the drumming as
opposed to "obvious" buildups and hits. I mean, Stewart Copeland is the
last drummer I've heard that brought some really new and innovative cue
rolls to the table. Have you heard the cut on Stanley Jordan's _If This
Bass Could Only Talk_ with AH and Copeland? AH solos in a pretty straight
rhythmic setting. Having said this, Coliauta's playing on _Secrets_ is the
ultimate expression of freetime playing IMHO. I think it's got much more
depth, maybe even too much for some.
>Weather Report was mentioned as a band that could maintain intensity over a
>longer duration. I would agree with that assessment; they used much more
>structured tunes (during their heyday) with really interesting writing for the
But you know, the thing I *HATE* about fusion, is that although the
structures are more complex than pop structures, there's still a set of
"standard" structures. I think Mahavishnu and King Crimson defined most of
them in the early 70's.
>ensemble parts. When someone broke out and soloedit was exciting because it wa
>s a contrast to the structured writing. A lot of the time, the heads of AH's
>tunes sound like solos, offering no contrast to the "real" solo.
Hmmm.. Do you like "modern/bebop jazz"? I think that even though
AH's bands resemble fusion outfits, the music is closer to modern jazz than
fusion, where the concept is extrapolating on the whole piece based,
including the head. I tend to not find fusion (as a whole) exciting because
there is no tension to the head. You *know* Gambale is going to nail every
part in Chick Corea's band, because it's a given that the part is going to
be reproduced the same. Sure, sometimes people "noodle" in the last bar of
the head, but that's not the same to me as AH deciding to reharmonize a line
in the head or chop it up or something else.
In fact, I kind of think of that type of fusion to be akin to what I call
the "Bored Metal Cover Band" syndrome; the guitar player is so bored by what
he's playing, he feels the creative need to spray notes all over the last 2
beats of every 8 bars (I'm sure this has been observed by some people here -
hopefully not guilty of being culpable to such behaviour!)).
Different strokes, I guess.
Please excuse the length.
Thank you, drive through.
Chip McDonald / cmcdonald@sunbelt.net | Holdsworth-Floyd-Kate-Sarah
"Try to be reasonable whenever possible" | Garden-Niven-WGibson-Marshall
"I too, have been ripped off by Atlanta Rhythm City" | k.d.-Ibanez-Boogie-ADA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 95 01:00:15 EDT
From: Daniel Ginsberg
Subject: Re: Boring tones and Girly Man(tm) brand strings......
On Tue, 6 Jun 1995 00:01:31 -0400 Chip McDonald said:
> Hmmm.. Do you like "modern/bebop jazz"? I think that even though
>AH's bands resemble fusion outfits, the music is closer to modern jazz than
>fusion, where the concept is extrapolating on the whole piece based,
>including the head. I tend to not find fusion (as a whole) exciting because
>there is no tension to the head. You *know* Gambale is going to nail every
>part in Chick Corea's band, because it's a given that the part is going to
>be reproduced the same. Sure, sometimes people "noodle" in the last bar of
>the head, but that's not the same to me as AH deciding to reharmonize a line
>in the head or chop it up or something else.
Actually there is some noteworthy tension here even in Jazz camps. If
Monk is noted for helping to extend the harmonic and rhythmic pallet of
jazz, he is also noted for lamenting the tendency of Jazz musicians to
jettison the melodic opportunities set forth in the head as they prayed
at the alter of chord substitutions. Cool Jazz echoed that concern it
seems, and folks like Bill Frizell have been increasingly vocal about it
in the past few years. This isn't the new-traditionalist line. Frizell
like Monk keeps his ears open and allows his music to stray into all
sorts of half-lit corners. It is a question of how to play a song in
increasingly free improvisational idioms. I honestly do not know what
to think. When I listen to Bartok or Schoenberg I am thankful for
whatever thematic development my ears can fasten on simply because the
harmonic structure is so complex. But Jazz is, of course, after
something different. I mention this only because it crosses many of the
tiny threads woven within this question. As improvised lines move
further from the melodic ideas in the head one really must concentrate
more to hear the song and follow the solos. On CD this is no problem;
but live it really is fatigueing, and for the unseasoned it may prove
frustrating.Sorry, no resolution suggested here, but I am not sure that
there is much in the way of resolution to be found. Whether one is
soloing over the changes suggested by the head or playing a
complex through-composed piece, there will be tension between what is
musically possible and what an audience--even one with good ears--can
manage to follow over the course of a song, set, or show. Solos or
later passages of through-composed peices that respect the melodic ideas
of the head (or early passages) sure help the audience hear lines as
parts of songs and to stay fresh, but it is not clear that this is or
should be a matter of concern to the artist who seeks to reach as far as
possible.
Hrm...i must be up to 4 or 6 cents on this by now......
Dan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Paul Morris"
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 17:35:18 +0000
Subject: Re: addiction vs. boredom
Rene,
Most certainly! Bela Fleck and the Flecktones are an excellent
musical listening treat, altho' they are very different and may take
some adjustment of your aural conceptions.
Paul
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 23:45:19 -0400
From: MerdadP@aol.com
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 158
Hey- a very cool thing happened to me yesterday!
I found out that Chad will be playing with AH in San Fansisco--at least
that's what the ad says ("Featuring Chad Wackerman). This is great news for
me. I wonder if he'll be on the rest of the tour?
I'll let you know how the show goes-but I can't wait!
BTW-all this boredom stuff is getting a bit boring. Frankly, I have enjoyed
listening to AH for years now. As with ANY artist, some songs are weaker than
others, and there's always the nostalgia thing (for albums you heard when you
wer 16 or so...). But I maintian that Allan is still one of the most
exceptional, inspirational and just downright amazing musicians around. I
think few virtuosas are appreciated while they're around, and I'm sorry that
Allan doesn't have a broader appeal. But I honestly can't see him playing
anything other than what he plays because *that's what makes him Allan*! So,
if you aren't amazed by his ability to eliminate the picking sound from his
playing, using it only as an accent occasionally, or feel he uses "too many
notes," then, well....whatever. But I think people should stop trying to
mould artists into what they want them to be and stop comparing AH with Pat
Metheney or Joe Schmoe, because they're all great at what they do, and we
listen to them for what they do, not because they fit in to some abstract
notion of better or worse or faster or more emotive or more
wind-instrument-like. It's *irrelevant*. Allan plays the way he feels the
music, and those of you who are musicians understand that he can no more play
differently than you can play differently from the way you do. So, just
LISTEN with an open ear and enjoy what you do and if you don't, then turn it
off! Phew. I feel better.
Waiting for the 18th.....
merdad parsey
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 00:15:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Chad on tour? That's the (unconfirmed) rumor...
> From: MerdadP@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 158
> I found out that Chad will be playing with AH in San Fansisco--at least
> that's what the ad says ("Featuring Chad Wackerman). This is great news for
> me. I wonder if he'll be on the rest of the tour?
My non-networked friend Pat Schroeder called recently to say he'd
heard that Chad *will* be playing the rest of the tour; I cannot
confirm this as the Holdsworths has been totally incommunicado for a
number of weeks, despite several e-mail messages and at least one
answering machine message. I hate to say it, but this seems to be an
increasing source of frustration for me, especially considering that
the issues I'm inquiring about lately have to do with increasing
Allan's cash flow.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ New Site! http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 17:08:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "chrisr@cts.com"
Subject: One admission to Belly-Up Show for free!
I have an extra name at the door for the San Diego show.
If you want it, the first email in my mail gets it.
June 14th, Belly Up Tavern, Solana Beach, CA.
But first, answer this trivia question: Which two musicians who have
played the belly-up had connections to the movie "Speed"?
Chris
___ ___
/ INE /__ COUT | Tel 619.756.9429 | Motion Picture Locations
/__ ___/ | Fax 619.756.3305 | San Diego * Los Angeles
Location Services | Pgr 619.271.3349 | chrisr@sdlocations.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
========= End of Atavachron Digest ========= I
\ :::: ]I[ :::: /
Administrative requests to: : ::::::: ]] [[ ::::::: :
listserv@msuacad.morehead-st.edu ::: ]] [[ :::
''::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::''
Postings to: ::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
atavachron@msuacad.morehead-st.edu ::: =a=t=a=v=a=c=h=r=o=n= :::
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
For more info, send HELP as the first ,,::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::,,
line in e-mail to the listserv above. ::: ]] [[ :::
: :::::: ]] . [[ :::::: :
All opinions expressed herein are / :: ] ::: [ :: \
those of the individual contributors. I I
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Japan, Australia and more are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 160
Wednesday, 14 June 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
RE: Atavachron Digest Number 159
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 159
Re: Boring tones and Girly Man(tm) brand strings......
kicking ass, riddim, and melodic obfuscation
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 159
The flecktones
Lights, camera, action?
Re: Lights, camera, action?
What if.....
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 158
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Brian Thomson
Subject: RE: Atavachron Digest Number 159
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 21:02:00 PDT
>I was reading the North Sea Jazz festival program lately, which disappoints
me a little. There isn't alot of avantgarde fusion/jazzrock anymore like
couple a years ago.. While spitting the program ( 6 stages, 3 days, 1000
musicians ) Ive read about Bela Fleck ( banjo) and the flecktones featuring
Roy Wooten on Synth-Axe and drumitar. Whats this ? Does anybody know if its
worth listening to ?
Bela Fleck and the Flecktones can only be called weird. They are currently;
Bela Fleck - banjo, electric & synth banjos
Victor Wooten - bass, (occasional) vocals
Roy "Future Man" Wooten - Heavily modified SynthAxe & Drumitar
Note that Future Man's SynthAxe is a percussion controller only - it's
covered with triggers and buttons, including the neck - no blinding lead
synth solos here. It still sounds damn good though, he's got the groove
alright!
Bela Fleck is another matter entirely. He has a vaguely guitar-shaped
electric banjo with guitar and synth pickups - it sounds like jazz guitar on
its own, and he often does lead synth solos, or sustained synth chords (by
pedal) while soloing over the top in guitar mode.
Victor Wooten? If you're a bass player (like me), you'll surely have heard
of this guy. Bass Player magazine's Player of the Year a few years back, he
has incredible technique, including a double-stroke thumb technique that has
to be seen to be believed. He also loves his gymnastics, throwing himself
and his battered Fodera around a lot.
I've only got one of their albums, Three Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, which
isn't too impressive. I've seen them live, which _was_ impressive!
Holdsworth? Has anybody wondered if AH should collaborate with Robert Fripp
at all? That would be the greatest sound-bending exercise I can think of.
Think Wardenclyffe Tower meets Soundscapes with Eno on production to keep
them in this galaxy, at least...
briant
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 14:15:45 -0700
From: edju@chaph.usc.edu (Edward Ju)
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 159
>> From: MerdadP@aol.com
>> Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 158
>
>> I found out that Chad will be playing with AH in San Fansisco--at least
>> that's what the ad says ("Featuring Chad Wackerman). This is great news for
>> me. I wonder if he'll be on the rest of the tour?
My friend just called me last week and told me that Allan will be
playing 2 shows at L.A. on Thursday night (June 15) and that Chad is going
to be on drums, so I guess he's going to be on for the rest of the tour.
Eddie
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:26:02 -0400
From: DMB5561719@aol.com
Subject: Re: Boring tones and Girly Man(tm) brand strings......
In a message dated 95-06-12 15:02:43 EDT, you write:
>Have you heard the cut on Stanley Jordan's _If This
>Bass Could Only Talk_ with AH and Copeland?
That's Stanley Clarke not Stanley Jordan!
David Beardsley
dmb5561719@aol.com
*******************************************************************
Email me for information on IMMP recordings.
Include IMMP in the subject line.
IMMP = a strange kind of music, an adventure.
*******************************************************************
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 01:25:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: cmcdonald@sunbelt.net (Chip McDonald)
Subject: kicking ass, riddim, and melodic obfuscation
WARNING! ACHTUNG! BEWARE! YET MORE OPINION FOLLOWS, AND IT'S PRETTY
LONG, TOO.
rene@via.nl (Rene Janssen) said:
>Subject: addiction vs. boredom
>
>Well.. I look forward to a (possible ? ) European tour. Could someone
>please kick AH's butt and tell him that its about time to come here ?
Yeah! And hey, while your're at it, how about kicking it again and
telling him to come to the southeastern US while your at it!
Signed:
Pissed off in a Shallow Sea (in Georgia)
(just kidding.... I know he doesn't make anything practically at all from
touring)
Maybe he can hook up opening for a "bigger name"?
Oh well.
: Michael Ibrahim said:
>Subject: rhythm
>
>It's funny that you should mention rhythm because a friend of mine was
>commenting the other day that the only thing he has against Allan's playing is
>that he doesn't really play with the time very much. When I say time I don't
>mean meter, I mean rhythmic groupings. Allan does tend to group things in
>fours. I know what he's talking about, but I don't know if that really bugs me
Uhm.... AH groups in fours alot, and doesn't play with the time
very much? For instance, in _Letter of Marque_, where does he do this, or
for that matter any tune of his? Doesn't play with the time??? We're
talking Allan Holdsworth here, right?
>enough to actually worry about it. I guess improvising rhythmically is much
>harder than improvising harmonically, or at least that's what I find. If I
Geez... Everytime I've seen him he's played with just about every
aspect of the music, harmonically/melodically, time, meter, cadence.....
Can you be more specific? In what way do you mean?
Daniel Ginsberg said:
>Subject: Re: Boring tones and Girly Man(tm) brand strings......
>there is much in the way of resolution to be found. Whether one is
>soloing over the changes suggested by the head or playing a
>complex through-composed piece, there will be tension between what is
>musically possible and what an audience--even one with good ears--can
>manage to follow over the course of a song, set, or show. Solos or
I agree - see my previous posts about AH requiring more
concentration to be appreciated. But I feel the whole gestalt of AH is that
he's offering something that can be more rewarding than most any other
listening experience, provided your're familiar with the form he's
improvising within. I mean, he's the full incarnation of the Rand self
realization IMHO. He makes *no* concessions to attempting to do anything
other than just what tweaks him; if people get lost listening he doesn't
care, and I think that's what makes him great.
>later passages of through-composed peices that respect the melodic ideas
>of the head (or early passages) sure help the audience hear lines as
>parts of songs and to stay fresh, but it is not clear that this is or
Maybe so, but rote regurgitation of a piece of music until the solo
I call rock music instead of jazz.
I've never heard AH alter any music to the point it's not recognizable, but
I've heard him play with rhythmic note values and voicings enough so that it
takes on a new flair - which to me, is the point. I mean, I can stay home
and listen to the cd with a much better sound than live, give me something
more in person - you know? I'm not knocking rock, I listen to it and play
it. I do think that it crosses over at some times, moreso in the past - I
think Led Zepplin at times were jazz, today Primus is maybe jazz. Maybe
the Dead are. I'm just tired of hearing music termed "*jazz* fusion"
simply because it's complex, as if the more complex it is the more "jazz" it
is - as opposed to the musical interaction of the participants.
Sorry to rant.
Thank you, drive through.
Chip McDonald / cmcdonald@sunbelt.net | Holdsworth-Floyd-Kate-Sarah
"Try to be reasonable whenever possible" | Garden-Niven-WGibson-Marshall
"I too, have been ripped off by Atlanta Rhythm City" | k.d.-Ibanez-Boogie-ADA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 05:42:33 -0400
From: James Peele
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 159
Well, to make a long story short, i'll be in Va. on July 11 and will be
attending the show in Alexandria! CAN'T WAIT!!
Does anyone know the name and phone number of the venue?
Thanks,
Jay Peele
jpeele@unf6.cis.unf.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: The flecktones
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 07:42:50 -0700 (PDT)
> I've only got one of their albums, Three Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, which
> isn't too impressive. I've seen them live, which _was_ impressive!
I highly recommend their albums _UFO Tofu_ and _Flight Of the Cosmic
Hippo_ which reflects the more McLaughlin/Mahavishnu-esque side of
Bela Fleck's writing.
--
Paolo Valladolid
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 14:51:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: X90LESAGE@wmich.edu
Subject: Lights, camera, action?
I just saw King Crimson last night. I was floored!!
I hadn't felt that musically/artistically stimulated in a long time (since
the first time I saw AH). Awesome musicianship throughout, start to finish.
A living canvas of sights and sounds was erected before me on which the Crimson
Kings painted with fantastic tonal colors and rythmic textures. A new world
was created in which I could not remember the depressing monotony of the
"real" world from which I came. Thoroughly entertaining!
A couple thoughts while being so moved:
This may have been addressed on atavachron prior to my subscription.
Has AH ever considered using a light show and/or video during some of
his gigs? I realize some of the venues are quite small, but I've
seen local bands do very creative things in nightclubs (and they
can't have budgets any bigger than Allan's). Is he opposed to such
efforts on any philosophical grounds? IMO, tunes like "Unmerry-go-
round" and "Hard Hat Area" lend themselves quite nicely to visual
interpretations. In fact, some of Allan's stuff really elicits
imagery for me. Video or lighting techniques can be another way
for Allan to communicate the imagery (if any) that he sees in his
music. [Of course, Allan could argue than he wants to keep such
interpretation personal and, thus, avoids influencing the listeners
interpretation.]
I thought the addition of AH on some of the songs would have made me
faint in awe! :) A couple of tunes (I don't remember the titles
as they were new releases of which I am not yet familiar) created a
musical environment in which it would seem AH would be very
comfortable. Has there been any talk of AH collaborating with
Crimson (through contact with Bruford I suppose)? The merging of
these two quite different styles would, IMO, result in the creation
of something entirely new; and, given the emergence of Fripp's
relaxation of style [see recent Guitar Player and listen to the new
stuff], musician compatability would seem more probable than it would
have been in the early eighties.
Any thoughts?
Best Regards,
Mark LeSage |
Department of Psychology | "...when [introspectionists] come to
Western Michigan University | analyze consciousness, naturally they find in
Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | it just what they put into it."
Tel: 616-387-4503 |
email: x90lesage@wmich.edu | J.B. Watson (1924, p. 4)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: Lights, camera, action?
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 17:07:33 -0700 (PDT)
> I thought the addition of AH on some of the songs would have made me
> faint in awe! :) A couple of tunes (I don't remember the titles
There are some songs were Trey Gunn plays some nice, possibly improvised
legato melody lines that could have been done by AH. Gunn's Stick
lead lines are very Holdsworth-like; like AH, he likes to use wide
intervals a lot and the tapping method of the Stick lends itself
to a legato sound.
> as they were new releases of which I am not yet familiar) created a
> musical environment in which it would seem AH would be very
> comfortable. Has there been any talk of AH collaborating with
> Crimson (through contact with Bruford I suppose)? The merging of
> these two quite different styles would, IMO, result in the creation
> of something entirely new; and, given the emergence of Fripp's
> relaxation of style [see recent Guitar Player and listen to the new
> stuff], musician compatability would seem more probable than it would
> have been in the early eighties.
It does seem like Fripp's attitude towards music and musicians seems
to have relaxed as of late. Still, I'm not sure where AH would fit
in a band which already has three great soloists; Fripp, Belew, and
Gunn. Perhaps a separate collaborative project like the Fripp/Summers
albums might be more productive. But then again, the question will
remain of what can the two of them do together. I personally would
like to hear something more than just AH soloing over Fripp's
Soundscapes.
--
Paolo Valladolid
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 21:33:19 EDT
From: Daniel Ginsberg
Subject: What if.....
I just picked up Abbey Lincoln's _A Turtle's Dreams_ today and recalled
a short thread from a few weeks back which concerned future vocalists
for AH projects. I have been wondering all afternoon what would happen
if AH hooked up with a stylest like AL. To the best of my knowledge his
vocalists have all been powerful singers not stylest-interpreters (if
that distiction makes sense). I can almost hear it. I wonder if he is
considering workig with a vocalist again soon; and I wonder if he would
ever consider working with a voice more sage than silky?
dan
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 10:30:00 PST
From: "Hoard, Chris"
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 158
Greetings Atavachronikers...
I haven't piped up in a good many weeks, it's been a rather hectic
pace with the corporate grind...
Re: unconfirmed rumours/Chad/consider it confirmed.
I thought I'd mention given my most recent grain-sampling escapade with our
favorite maestro a few pertinent, ale related items. A piece of bad news,
though is that AH's take on the US jazz and medium-sized club scene is in
decline compared to past years. Bookings have been difficult--but he didn't
really consider this the fault of management or booking agency. AH faces the
real possibility of losing money on the current tour due to increased logistical
costs and fewer available venues. I'm not sure his management could be doing
better though--in LA for example, given some of the sorry bands playing the
better venues--Coach House, House of Blues--it seems ridiculous AH is not
getting those bookings. If Polygram US puts a big push on the new CD,
"None Too Soon," (featuring Gordon Beck), then that may change. The four or
five basic tracks I've heard are phenomenal--if you like a more straight-ahead
jazz approach, and will offer the world a deeper exploration of AH launching
off familiar melodies, ala the Beatles "Michelle."
The good news is, touring Japan and Australia is generally earning the band
a little pay, given the immense transporation costs--but we may well be seeing
a lot less of AH in the U.S. if the current trend continues.
As a result, though, AH is steadfastly and seriously exploring non-musical
prospects for income. One will be the manufacture of a production run of
"The Harness" in the mid-summer timeframe. Most of you will have seen the ad
in Guitar Player. AH is quoted prominently, and his solo records are featured
prominently in a piece about the rise/decline of fusion in Jazziz -- the other
two musicians featured are Chick Corea and Jan Hammer -- an interesting trio
of elder spokesmen if you ask me.
The other pursuit is AH seeking sole distributorship in the US for and
English Ale Pump for hand-pulling creamy headed pints of heavenly liquid
grain... This would be combined with a "fizz-buster," a hydraulic invention
pioneered by AH and one of his ale-swilling comrades from the San Diego -- it's
designed to make the most of the finer American micro-brews. I'm sure it's
only a matter of time before he consults with JP on how this product can
be marketed via a WWW page.
I've actually been reading a lot of the posts recently -- a lot of acute
observation, good critical thinking, and the occasional absurdist spouting.
On Thu, 1 Jun 1995 Mark LeSage wrote:
> Maybe one move Allan could make to increase variability and decrease
> boredom is get rid of Steve Hunt.
Condiser whether there's really a viable alternative to Hunt that
could tour with AH *and* play over his changes. Not easy shoes to
fit in. My problem is, that, while Steve is an incredible player,
his role in the band demands long extended solos in the shadow of
a master--so I too find myself bored listening to him part of the
time--but that doesn't mean I'd start a recall campaign!
It would be a terrific break from the past five years to see Gordon
Beck, but on the other hand, Gordon's style--as great as he is--
does not always mix easily or well with AH's compositional vision.
Did anyone see Beck play with IOU with Jimmy and Chad? At times
it was incredible--but I often felt that the rhythm section would
have to change their approach most of the time to afford him an
equal space in the "quartet" setting.
AH may indeed tour with Gordon Beck next year or late this year,
but it would have to be a very different band.
The other problem from my perspective, is, I honestly view AH as
one of the century's great melodic interpreters/stylists -- and
the handful of others playing today, who would provide the needed
balance to keep the extended solo sections cooking when AH is
comping... well, only a few are possibly up to keeping
up with the pace that AH's rhythm section establishes -- and they
are for the most part musicians as famous as AH or much moreso.
Kind of a catch-22.
>From: gklein@inch.com (gary klein)
>I've been lurking for a little while now and I'm surprised this is
the first time Henderson's name has come up. For those of you who are
looking for a slightly more metal/shred but still playing over changes
approach, Hendersons your man. This is probably not true of the latest
CD but ...
>Not to mention the fact that Holdsworth is employing most of the
rest of Tribal Tech in the tour, of course.
Scott Henderson filled in for AH (due to a schedule conflict) on
Billy Child's latest release on GRP -- really one of the year's most
phenomenal fusion projects--also features Jimmy Johnson.
....
>3. There is an unreleased studio recording of the song "Water on the
Brain" with Paul Williams on vocals. It was recorded on the first IOU
album, but, interestingly, Allan rejected it for some reason. Does anyone
know why?
YES -- AH preferred the Williams' version. Ted Templeman made him bring
in another vocalist -- AH chose his friend Jack Bruce, who happened to
have the major league name recognition Warner Bros. wanted. This was a
factor in the bad vibes that eventually parted AH from Warners, which
also resulted in a CD re-issue sitting in a vault for the forseeable
future, much to AH's regret.
All I can muster for the moment--get out and see AH on the tour--although
I'd like to see a drastically different set like most of you, I can tell
you there will probably be at least two tunes you've never heard before
performed by the band....
Cheers/Chris.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I ========= End of Atavachron Digest =========
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Japan, Australia and more are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 161
Wednesday, 21 June 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
#45
VA venue phone number
Jazziz Magazine?
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 160
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 160
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 152
AH with KC...
Re: AH with KC...
Other Musicians
Holdsworth @ Backstage, Seattle
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 01:52:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: cmcdonald@sunbelt.net (Chip McDonald)
Subject: #45
>
DMB5561719@aol.com said:
>Subject: Re: Boring tones and Girly Man(tm) brand strings......
>
>In a message dated 95-06-12 15:02:43 EDT, you write:
>
>>Have you heard the cut on Stanley Jordan's _If This
>>Bass Could Only Talk_ with AH and Copeland?
>
>That's Stanley Clarke not Stanley Jordan!
Fugging fug! Your're right.....
CHIP'S THOUGHT ERRONEOUS THOUGHT PROCESS:
While casually replying to a post,
1.) Have tv on ESPN during Michael Jordan interview
2.) Visualize image of Stanley Clarke circa 1975
3.) Think to one's self "gee, he (Clarke) looked like the big afroed Dr. J"
4.) Jordan played like Dr. J. Ergo, Stanley Clarke played like Michael Jordan.
Hence "Stanley Jordan".
See, and you thought Iw as thinking about a guitar player.
Chip McDonald / cmcdonald@sunbelt.net | Holdsworth-Floyd-Kate-Sarah
"Try to be reasonable whenever possible" | Garden-Niven-WGibson-Marshall
"I too, have been ripped off by Atlanta Rhythm City" | k.d.-Ibanez-Boogie-ADA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 07:35:55 -0500 (EST)
From: tAKE oNE
Subject: VA venue phone number
Jay (and others),
>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 05:42:33 -0400
>From: James Peele
>Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 159
>
>Well, to make a long story short, i'll be in Va. on July 11 and will be
>attending the show in Alexandria! CAN'T WAIT!!
>
>Does anyone know the name and phone number of the venue?
It's called The Birchmere. Phone is 703-549-5919. If you find
out how to obtain tickets and how much they are, PLEASE post here
or write me--I'm interested in going.
andre'
acutair@ubmail.ubalt.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 22:47:33 +0500
From: fstopron@inforamp.net (Ron Belli)
Subject: Jazziz Magazine?
I was interested in Chris Hoard's recent posting where a few items about
"Jazziz" magazine were mentioned. Can any of you provide further
information on where and how I can acquire the issue on which Allan, Chick
Corea, and Jan Hammer appeared? I live in Toronto, Canada, so I realize
that it may be difficult to acquire up here. (I would also love to see
Allan perform up here again soon... just wishful thinking, I guess).
Regards,
Ron Belli
fstopron@inforamp.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 12:17:22 -0600
From: DaLane@oxygen.bbn.com (Dave Lane)
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 160
Mark Lesage wrote:
/ ... Has AH ever considered using a light show and/or video during some of
/ his gigs? ...
I doubt he cares about such things.
When I saw UK, he hid in the shadows to the rear of the stage, not
unlike a certain crafty guitarist we all know. Later, when I saw
him play in a small club with IOU, there were stationary spots pointing
at the stage, and he went over and moved them so that both he and Willis
were beyond their reach. Only Husband and Williams were in the spotlights.
--Dave
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 14:54:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: X90LESAGE@wmich.edu
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 160
Dave,
I agree that Allan probably doesn't get into having a spotlight on him, neither
does Robert Fripp apparently (he was in the shadows for the entire gig when I
saw Crimson, could barely tell it was him). Such
insecurity/humility/humbleness or whatever doesn't stop Crimson from using a
light show. If anything, the light show takes ones eyes off the musician
(something that an insecure musician might like) without sacrificing
attention to the music. Visual stimuli, if used appropriately, can enhance
the emotional/perceptual reponses that are already evoked by the music.
Spotlights don't do much other than make the person that's in them easier to
see. But simple timing and configuration of different palets of color and
*movement* of light can do much to affect the listener.
But, as I said before, Allan may feel that he doesn't want to infringe on the
listeners personal interpretation of the music. Or, maybe he and his (elite?)
fans feel that such inquiry reflects a general insensitivity to the
music, that Allan shouldn't have to superfluously decorate his presentation
for his insensate listeners. I don't know yet, nobody has attempted any
explanation. But, *I'm* not of the latter opinion.
Regards,
Mark LeSage |
Department of Psychology | "...when [introspectionists] come to
Western Michigan University | analyze consciousness, naturally they find in
Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | it just what they put into it."
Tel: 616-387-4503 |
email: x90lesage@wmich.edu | J.B. Watson (1924, p. 4)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 15:04:30 -0400
From: MerdadP@aol.com
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 152
Wow.
I saw Holdsworth last night, and yes indeed, Chad was playing with him. I
didn't realize how much I had missed Chad playing with AH. It was truly
incredible. They did a great variety with great new stuff and lots of old
stuff, going back to Road Games, Metal Fatigue and even IOU. I thought the
most amazing song was Devil take the Hindmost, with a little break where AH
and Chad just let loose with an unprecedented duo that left most jaws
permanently fixed on the floor. CW also did an amazing drum solo.
After last night, I truly can't understand the whole boredom thread at all. I
really don't understand why a band with such virtuosos can't get more
recognition and fill bigger halls. It's frustrating that Gloria Estefan fills
20,000 seat auditoriums and the attendance last night was a couple of hundred
at best with plenty of room left over. Ugh. If I'm frustrated, imagine how AH
feels.
Well, at least there are the faithful.
Now to sit back and wait for the next album....
Merdad
P.S. I cna't find the Gongzilla album anywhere, any suggestions for mail
order type stuff??
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 16:58:21 PST
From: "Hoard, Chris"
Subject: AH with KC...
From: X90LESAGE@wmich.edu
>I just saw King Crimson last night. I was floored!!
Can't wait for July 1 here in LA...
>I hadn't felt that musically/artistically stimulated in a long time
(since
the first time I saw AH). Awesome musicianship throughout, start to
finish....
>This may have been addressed on atavachron prior to my subscription.
Has AH ever considered using a light show and/or video during some of
his gigs?
A marvelous idea, and all too cost prohibitive. AH would very
predisposed, I think to working with more visuals--or even a visual
artist. I think it would be up to that person (or somebody) to come
up with a concept and help finance/develop it--because AH's last
dollar will always go toward his own multitrack gear or that next amp
in the quest for an even more perfect tone, or a DeLap guitar
mutation, or synth module, or Lexicon, or...
As AH has stated, much of his music is very visually inspired--we've
spent hours speculating on videos. The question would be finding a
good video artist who could apply some of their work to AH's music.
Re: KC...
>I thought the addition of AH on some of the songs would have made me
faint in awe! :) A couple of tunes (I don't remember the titles
as they were new releases of which I am not yet familiar) created a
musical environment in which it would seem AH would be very
comfortable. Has there been any talk of AH collaborating with
Crimson (through contact with Bruford I suppose)? The merging of
these two quite different styles would, IMO, result in the creation
of something entirely new; and, given the emergence of Fripp's
relaxation of style [see recent Guitar Player and listen to the new
stuff], musician compatability would seem more probable than it would
have been in the early eighties.
Aside from the fact that UK was a direct spin-off of KC, this subject
has surfaced more than a few times on Elephant Talk--and here as well.
I disagree a bit--Belew and Fripp are enough guitars for two bands
already. A Fripp/Holdsworth project would sure be a lot more
interesting than a Fripp/Summers, though, IMO. Moreso, because the
musicians could not be more different in their approach to music in
general (and I imagine life as well). I've rattled on about this at
length... but I can certainly imagine both musicians approach to
chordal phrasing and lead as potentially complimentary--I for one
think it would be Fripp who would be more challenged. Yet Fripp's
interest in jazz forms--and his involvement with improvisatory music
(ie. Jamie Muir, Keith Tippett, Ovary Lodge, etc). holds many parallel
tracks with AH (Soft Machine, Gong, Bruford...) What a lot of people
forget about AH is that from an English perspective he was considered
a true jazzer--a guy who played in small London clubs for years with
the greatest names in local jazz--occasionally to stumble into the
highest profile fusion and progressive rock gigs throughout the 70s.
AH, while heavily influenced by rock bands like Cream, as a youth
was raised on John Coltrane and Benny Goodman.
Fripp was a rocker first--a rock avant-gardist and one of the most
formidable artistic leaders in English rock's avant-garde. He
occasionally became involved with the same fringe element in English
jazz music--and I believe some of the musicians that gravitated
in both circles gravitated in and out of Soft Machine, National Health
and the like.
The good news is that after Bruford has a break from KC--AH has
mentioned to me he would really be interested in working with Bill
again in more of a rock mode... whatever that might be. I'd prefer it
to be risky, and a departure from the past, rather than a revisitation
of any of the past bands. I doubt AH would cast his full creative
effort into such a project on any other terms.
--CH |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 23:03:27 EDT
From: "Bob Lynch"
Subject: Re: AH with KC...
> The good news is that after Bruford has a break from KC--AH has
> mentioned to me he would really be interested in working with Bill
> again in more of a rock mode... whatever that might be. I'd prefer it
> to be risky, and a departure from the past, rather than a revisitation
> of any of the past bands. I doubt AH would cast his full creative
> effort into such a project on any other terms.
Great, now I have the musical equivalent of blue balls Chris!
--Bob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 10:35:40 -0500 (CDT)
From: 3rdStone <3rdstone@io.com>
Subject: Other Musicians
Since everyone here has an interest in AH's playing, I'm curious what
other musicians cap everyone's lists.
If I could just mention *one* guitarist (and, no, it's not James Taylor)..
Mahavishnu John McLaughlin, I love using the, 'Mahavishnu.' This guy
screams, blows. Especially the Mahavishnu Orchestra material; boggling.
Talk about your spiritual content.
Oh, yes, and if I had only *one* AH album (vinyl) to take on a deserted
island, blah, blah, blah.. I.O.U. I think Allan's terminology
'wholeness' applies to this recording. BTW, did Steve Hunt play on this
thing? (In response to CH's comments on *who* else could possibly keep
up with the pace and musicality of AH. My point: How about *no one*?
{double parentheses to further explain myself: Not that no one *could*,
but, does he need to bother? After hearing something like IOU, or is this
some sort of dated argument? Everything has its place and time? Time to
move on? "Dude, the musical possibilities.." Yea, yeah.})
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 10:46:02 -0700
From: gordoncurrie@medio.net (Gordon Currie)
Subject: Holdsworth @ Backstage, Seattle
Allan and company (Chad Wackerman, Skuli Sverrison, Steve Hunt) graced the
city of Seattle last night (June 20) with a long-awaited performance, having
bypassed the area in 1994.
I took a notebook, hoping to jot down my impressions, but more often
found myself completely transfixed, pen and paper forgotten. So caveat reader.
Here is my (very) random mini-review:
1. They started off with _Funnels_. It was a little ragged, to be honest, but
I had never heard this played live, so I enjoyed it.
2. _Looking Glass_ was next. Allan took the first solo. About halfway through,
he and Chad *clicked* and there was a palpable thrill as the music shifted
gears.
It was as if someone somewhere flipped a switch marked INSPIRATION.
3. _Ruhkukah_ came next. This tune is not much more than a fragmentary
head, but a great excuse for yet more soloing. Steve and Allan both turned in
fine solos, yet I considered it a good warm-up.
4. _Low levels/high stakes_ featured a gorgeous bass solo by Skuli. He has
really
grown since the first time I saw him, when I thought he was not up to par.
(But that's
what I thought of Jimmy Johnson in 1983, too.) Allan's solo was decent, but not
at the level of the HHA version (in my opinion a highlight of the album).
5. I was surprised to hear the opening chords of _Pud Wud_ next. Last time I
heard
him do this tune was 1987 with the SynthAxe. Again Skuli played a monster solo.
The _Sand_ album is one of my absolute favorite, so it's always a treat to hear
tunes from it.
(One small nit - I think there could be more thought put into pacing of the
concert. It was difficult for me to hear two songs featuring bass back to back.
Not that I dislike a good bass solo, but it might make it more special.
Sometimes
the difference between playing an arbitrary sequence of songs, and composing
a dynamic progression - like a multicourse meal - can mean everything.)
6. _Shallow Sea_. I haven't heard this live in a decade. Everyone dug into the
tune, and Steve and Allan *burned*. The song structure has a shifting, swinging,
open quality to it, which seemed to bring out the best in everyone.
7. The crowd erupted into applause at the opening chords of _Devil take the
Hindmost_. Steve took this one to the moon and back. All evening long, I was
impressed at how he managed to subtly differentiate his sound and approach
from Allan's. His solo was killer, and his use of pitch-bend was wrenchingly
beautiful. Allan began with some unaccompanied free playing (wild!),
and all of a sudden wham! everyone came back in for his solo.
Allan did not disappoint, either, yet right at the height of reaming,
he seemed to momentarily get lost, and abruptly returned to the head.
8. _House of mirrors_. A gorgeous tune in the tradition of _Home_ from Metal
Fatigue. I love his chordal work, and this showcases it superbly. I appreciated
that Steve took a short, yet sweet solo, and they repeated the head and
ended. Sometimes less is more.
9. _Water on the Brain_ featured Skuli again, and Steve played the melody line.
10. The obligatory drum solo. I love a good drummer, but I am a melodic
musician, and I can count the great drum solos I have heard on one hand
and a finger. Well now I need another finger, thank you. Chad obviously
composed his solo, and it was masterful, tasteful, thematic, and
completely absorbing.
11. Allan began with his trademark swelling chords, and the band
launched into the second half of _The things you see_. It was nice
to hear this and _Shallow Sea_, because I consider IOU to be
a landmark album - the genesis of a sound and style unlike
his earlier solo album, and an approach that continues through
today.
12. _Protocosmos_ followed next. I can't remember much about this,
other than it burned, as usual.
13. The encore was the _Zone_ improv, of course. Unlike the last time
I saw them do this, they did not let it get out of hand and overly long.
It was succinct and very enjoyable, much like a good aperitif.
Random observations: Allan played through a couple of Carvin (?!?!!!)
amps, and two small (for him) racks of processing gear. He seemed to
favor a dryer, less processed sound than in the past, which was in
contrast to his recorded sound (very lush). His solo sound was
vocal and throaty, but his chordal sound occasionally got a tad
muddy and overdriven (the Carvin amps, maybe?).
Both Steve and Skuli impressed me with how much they have grown.
Granted, neither are of his caliber, but the fact that they can keep
up and even shine in his company is a serious testament to their
considerable talents.
The turnout was pretty decent - not a sellout (he never has in Seattle)
but more than I expected. He repeated many times how appreciative
they were that the audience came out to hear the band. Knowing how
the US tour may lose money made that doubly poignant.
Whew. Hope this (no longer mini) review entertains.
------------------------------------
Gordon Currie
gordoncurrie@medio.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Canada and the U.S. are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
or check out the Atavachron WWW: http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 162
Wednesday, 21 June 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Allan in latest issue of RUG
Who on Earth is Fred Bloggs? / Income Ideas
San Francisco City Nights
Re: Who on Earth is Fred Bloggs? / Income Ideas
Re: Who on Earth is Fred Bloggs? / Income Ideas
Holdsworth merchandising
Holdsworth in San Francisco
Re: Allan in latest issue of RUG
Re: Allan in latest issue of RUG
Re: Allan in latest issue of RUG
Re: Allan in latest issue of RUG
Bad news, good news
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 13:15:22 -0700
From: edju@chaph.usc.edu (Edward Ju)
Subject: Allan in latest issue of RUG
This might be real old news, but I just got the latest issue of
Roland Users Group (V13, N1) and Allan was mentioned in the article "The Stars
Come Out to Listen and Play with Roland at NAMM" on page 36. Allan's band had
a picture with Chairman/Founder of Roland Ikutaro Kakehashi (in the picture:
Allan, Ikutaro, Chad, Skuli, and Steve from L to R). Roland debuted their new
VG-8 V-Guitar System at the show and "as a grand finale, Allan Holdsworth gave
a blistering performance on the new VG-8 V-Guitar System. Holdsworth's band
included Skuli Sverrison, Steve Hunt and Chad Wackerman. This was the first
ever performance for the VG-8. Holdsworth also performed with the VG-8 at the
NAMM's Saturday night extravaganza, which was sponsored by Musician Magazine."
The VG-8 is different from the usual MIDI guitars because it's a pedal
board that does not use key-style triggering which is used on the old synth
guitar systems. Instead, it takes the signal from the guitar and "process" it
much like a wavetable sound card, I suppose. Anyone know more about the VG-8
can correct my impressions?
Eddie
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "ToddM"
Date: 21 Jun 1995 16:04:59CST6CDT
Subject: Who on Earth is Fred Bloggs? / Income Ideas
[ Moderator's note: Reformatted to less than 80 chars/line. What are you
guys using to write these things, anyway? :) --JP ]
Who on earth is Fred Bloggs, anyway?
I've got some ideas:
I've been watching what King Crimson has been up to lately and they've
had some good ideas to generate income for the band. I think a lot of
their ideas would work for Allan.
Besides the usual t-shirts, hats, jackets and other garments:
o "Signature Series" compact discs, which are the same ones that are in
the stores, except signed by the artists (imagine a copy of "Hard Hat Area"
signed by all the participants).. maybe even with limited edition different
artwork for just such a purpose.
o Screensaver Software (how many prog/fusion/jazz fans own computers?
There's many that I know of. It could encompass background screens with
flying guitars and synthaxes and include audio clips (and even video!).
Some more ideas I've bounced around are:
o AH could write the logical successor to "Reaching for the Uncommon Chord".
It could encompass all the music released since then that he can legally
publish. It also could include more biographical information, be packed
with more photographs than the original (even in color, perhaps).
o AH could release a "live" album from the archives comprising the tunes
from the "Road Games" period thus negating the need for a release of that
album which would only fill Warner Bros' coffers anyway. He could release
it himself and negotiate P&D (press and distribution) deals through
independent sources. He could add bonus tracks that weren't available on
the original recording. If you recall Stanley Clarke's live record of
archival material from several years back it could be along those lines
but better musically.
o AH could release a "definitive edition" video of "greatest hits" material
for the U.S. market. Perhaps a companion CD could be released.
o How about the AH logo that Art Shoji designed in the form of a pin one
could wear? How about t-shirts bearing this design with modern graphics
behind it? A necklace? A ring?
How about t-shirts bearing the cover art of the albums? I'd love a
"Wardenclyffe" or "HHA" tee.
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic here. It would be great if the money for
these kind of projects just materialized out of thin air. Unfortunately,
Allan's modesty and obdurate perfectionism will probably prevent him from
seeking out projects like this. As it is, there's probably more of a market
for the Harness and the Fizz-Buster.
What'dya think?
ToddM@laserm.lmt.com
Todd Madson - Associate Technician
LaserMaster Technical Support Services
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 14:37:25 -0700
From: Peter Guilhamet
Subject: San Francisco City Nights
Allan came to play Great American Music Hall in San Francisco
on Sunday, great gig !! Turnout was very good (two floors full),
but not quite sold out; I'm sure the evening was a profitable one
for the band, though a questionable one for the bar (not a drinking crowd).
They broke the show into 2 sets; 5 tunes -> 20 minute break -> more tunes.
Is that typical for this tour ?
I thought it was a great show, the sound quality was excellent at the back
of the room (middle), and I thanked Allan's sound man for doing such a
great job.
I got a T-shirt this time around, so I can wear it and have people ask
me, "who's that" ?
I would just love to see a live AH album put out, his sound is somehow
different (i.e. awesome) at the gigs.
-pg-
p.s. The billing in the paper was "Allan Holdsworth featuring Chad Wackerman"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 17:57:38 EDT
From: "Bob Lynch"
Subject: Re: Who on Earth is Fred Bloggs? / Income Ideas
As it is, there's probably more of a market
>for the Harness and the Fizz-Buster.
Has anyone used the Harness yet? And what is a Fizz-Buster?
--Bob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 18:04:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Re: Who on Earth is Fred Bloggs? / Income Ideas
On Wed, 21 Jun 1995, ToddM wrote:
> From: ToddM
> Subject: Who on Earth is Fred Bloggs? / Income Ideas
> Who on earth is Fred Bloggs, anyway?
If you're serious, I think an Englishman told me that it is the
British equivalent of "Joe Blow," but he put it to me with a somewhat
incredulous tone (i.e. "You REALLY don't KNOW???"). :) Any Brits on
the list care to set the record straight?
> I've got some ideas:
> I've been watching what King Crimson has been up to lately and they've
> had some good ideas to generate income for the band. I think a lot of
> their ideas would work for Allan.
> Besides the usual t-shirts, hats, jackets and other garments:
> o "Signature Series" compact discs, which are the same ones that are in
> the stores, except signed by the artists (imagine a copy of "Hard Hat Area"
> signed by all the participants).. maybe even with limited edition different
> artwork for just such a purpose.
Considering the seeming impracticality of the band members getting
together for *rehearsal*, even getting signatures on a batch of CDs
might prove logistically daunting (or at least jack up the price by
a non-trivial amount, thanks to intracontinental shipping charges).
> o Screensaver Software (how many prog/fusion/jazz fans own computers?
> There's many that I know of. It could encompass background screens with
> flying guitars and synthaxes and include audio clips (and even video!).
If one of you programming-types want to tackle this, I'll be glad to
send a copy to Allan for approval. I'm sure if you made it available
as relatively-inexpensive shareware, with 50% of profits going to
Allan, it'd probably fly. One note: You HAVE to make a Mac version --
preferably as an AfterDark module (that's the "serious" computer that
Claire and Allan use, anyway). ;)
> Some more ideas I've bounced around are:
> o AH could write the logical successor to "Reaching for the Uncommon Chord".
> It could encompass all the music released since then that he can legally
> publish. It also could include more biographical information, be packed
> with more photographs than the original (even in color, perhaps).
I wouldn't look for that to happen so soon after the release of
_Just For The Curious_, but who knows?
> o AH could release a "live" album from the archives comprising the tunes
> from the "Road Games" period thus negating the need for a release of that
> album which would only fill Warner Bros' coffers anyway. He could release
> it himself and negotiate P&D (press and distribution) deals through
> independent sources. He could add bonus tracks that weren't available on
> the original recording.
I *love* this idea, and the same exact thought crossed my mind when
I scored my copy of _WT+3_. Hey Allan, do you REALLY wanna raise a
salutatory digit to Warner Bros.? Well, Here You Go... the ghost of
Frank Zappa will dance a congratulatory jig, certainly. I would bet my
last dollar that a certain outfit in Maryland would pay for the pressing,
even.
> o AH could release a "definitive edition" video of "greatest hits" material
> for the U.S. market. Perhaps a companion CD could be released.
Ha! Dream on... the guy will never be happy enough with his performances
to release *anything* live. Well, I guess the REH video made it to market,
but I bet he wishes it *hadn't*. I'm making a safe bet, huh? :)
> o How about the AH logo that Art Shoji designed in the form of a pin one
> could wear? How about t-shirts bearing this design with modern graphics
> behind it? A necklace? A ring?
I know an outfit here in li'l ol' Morehead that can embroider (sp.?)
it on baseball caps, sweatshirts, golf shirts, etc., no problem, but
the trick is in getting Allan to sign off on the idea... and then of
course seeking Mr. Shoji's permission would be of paramount importance,
as well.
> Maybe I'm being overly optimistic here. It would be great if the money for
> these kind of projects just materialized out of thin air. Unfortunately,
> Allan's modesty and obdurate perfectionism will probably prevent him from
> seeking out projects like this. As it is, there's probably more of a market
> for the Harness and the Fizz-Buster.
> What'dya think?
I think these are all great ideas, but again, I think the biggest
obstacle is in getting Allan to go along. I'm still in advertising
limbo regarding the Web page for the Harness, waiting for photos and
approval from the Holdsworth camp before putting it on my server,
and the text is completely HTML-ized and ready to go at a moment's
notice. I'm pretty sure the price is right, too... it's tough to beat
*free*.
Another roadblock would be in who would be willing to finance a run
of merchandise; I don't see Allan dropping a few thousand bucks into a
run of shirts, hats, etc. I wish I could finance it, but all of my
cash is currently tied up in ADdimension, and it may be a while before
I see a return. But I'll act as mediator between interested parties;
if you have a few hundred bucks to chance on such a thing, write to
me and I'll try to connect a few folks, and we can pitch the idea to
Allan. Just promise me that in return, y'all will cut a reasonable
deal with ADdimension for order processing/advertising. :)
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ New Site! http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 95 18:18:43 -0400
From: rardin%orion.dnet@auriga (R. Lynn Rardin)
Subject: Holdsworth merchandising
>o AH could release a "live" album from the archives comprising the tunes
>from the "Road Games" period thus negating the need for a release of that
>album which would only fill Warner Bros' coffers anyway. He could release
>it himself and negotiate P&D (press and distribution) deals through
>independent sources. He could add bonus tracks that weren't available on
>the original recording. If you recall Stanley Clarke's live record of
>archival material from several years back it could be along those lines
>but better musically.
Now _there's_ an idea. Does such archival material exist in a form suitable
for such a release. I'd been bouncing around the idea of making a CD-R from
my LP copy of "Road Games", but like this idea better.
-Lynn
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 16:03:43 -0700
From: Scott Steele
Subject: Holdsworth in San Francisco
I would like to thank Gordon Currie for his review of the Seattle show
at the Backstage and would like to contrast his review with my impressions
of the performance two nights earlier at the Great amerikan Music Hall in
San Francisco. This was my third Holdsworth show ever, fourth if you
count UK. Song lists on the two shows was probably identical; I have
a problem with song titles from the Holdsworth pantheon; I know the
older albums better than the new ones . . .
I agree with Gordon that everything burned. Proto-Cosmos
floored me; both soloists ripped through the changes with a lot more
abandon than anyone ever did in 1977 or whenever the record came
out . . .
Sorry to hear they didn't pack the Backstage. Great amerikan
was full and might be a little bit larger.
He really bobbled on the head of
Looking Glass but so what; the solos killed everyone in the audience.
After the third song, someone asked "Are you warmed up yet?" which
drew laughter from the audience. Allan replied "I don't know, ask me
later."
Allan's solo on Pud Wud was white hot. It's not just the speed
and power, it's the intervallic leaps; but we know that.
Devil Take the Hindmost was quite cool. I liked the songs where
Steve took the melody leaving the comping to Allan. A little
disappointing to hear no new music
and precious little from HHA or Wardenclyffe Tower, but great to hear
music from Sand, Atavachron, IOU, and Road Games.
I live in Portland OR and panicked when I heard that Allan was in Seattle
on the same night Crimson was in Portland! How wonderful that I got
his itinerary from the Atavachron Digest and was able to see him in
SF (thanks a million for everything, Jeff). - S.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: Allan in latest issue of RUG
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 16:30:37 -0700 (PDT)
Hmph
I ordered my VG8 cd from Roland over a month ago and I have yet to see
it in my mailbox.
As always, Roland's customer relations leave much to be desired...
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
----------------------------------------------------------------- |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ |
\ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 1995 16:50:16 PT
From: "Robert Wells"
Subject: Re: Allan in latest issue of RUG
*** Reply to note of 06/21/95 16:46
Information Systems (327-3917)
Why cry about this on the Holdsworth list?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: Allan in latest issue of RUG
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 17:16:30 -0700 (PDT)
> *** Reply to note of 06/21/95 16:46
> Information Systems (327-3917)
> Why cry about this on the Holdsworth list?
Wasn't it mentioned here that Roland gave AH a VG8 then abruptly
took it back after they got what they wanted from him?
I hope AH was fairly compensated for his time and trouble.
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
----------------------------------------------------------------- |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ |
\ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 20:41:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Re: Allan in latest issue of RUG
> From: Robert Wells
> Subject: Re: Allan in latest issue of RUG
> Why cry about this on the Holdsworth list?
Frankly, I think Paolo has earned a little latitude in his choice
of topic in regards to this forum, since he is far and away one of
Atavachron's top contributors in both quality and quantity. When the
same can be said of you, Robert, we'll help you move out of your
glass house.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ New Site! http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 21:23:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Bad news, good news
Yet another piece of mail made its way into my snailmail box today...
again with the same modus operandii as the previous two: no return
address nor any hint as to the sender's identity, and the contents
were photocopies of an advertisement which was obviously Japanese in
origin. This time, the ads featured guitars -- which is the bad news.
Two of the guitars were Allan's, and one -- the infamous maple DeLap
-- was displayed prominently at the top of the page, alongside what
one might take to be a "certificate of authenticity," of sorts (a
handwritten note from Allan with an attached Polaroid of him holding
the guitar).
The other guitar was a 1963 Gibson SG Custom, with Allan's signature
on the face. I take it this is the same guitar that was on the cover
of _Velvet Darkness_.
According to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, as of noon today
(6/21), the asking prices were $6932.92 for the DeLap (585,000 Yen);
$5901.87 for the SG (495,000 Yen). Not that I believe that anyone
reading this could cough up that kind of dough on short notice, but
it is unfortunate that our mysterious mail maniac did not include a
phone number... if my parsing is right, I think the name of the
store is "Open 4," if that makes any sense (and if it *does* make
sense to any of our readers in Japan, I'd love to hear from you).
So, I suppose Allan unloaded these last month while in Tokyo. Sigh.
The good news? At these prices, I imagine Allan is *immensely*
popular in Japan. :-/ Oh, and this envelope was postmarked. It
seems our mystery mailer is mailing from Reading, PA.
All this should be available on the AtavaWWW sometime tonight or
tomorrow (depending on when Randy looks at the incoming FTP folder);
the URL will be:
http://www.addimension.com/atav/docs/mystery2.html
Again, sigh.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ New Site! http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I ========= End of Atavachron Digest =========
\ :::: ]I[ :::: /
: ::::::: ]] [[ ::::::: : Administrative requests to:
::: ]] [[ ::: listserv@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
''::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::''
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ ::: Postings to:
::: =a=t=a=v=a=c=h=r=o=n= ::: atavachron@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
,,::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::,, For more info, send HELP as first
::: ]] [[ ::: line in e-mail to the listserv above.
: :::::: ]] . [[ :::::: :
/ :: ] ::: [ :: \ All opinions expressed herein are
I I those of the individual contributors.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Canada and U.S. are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
or visit the Atavachron WWW: http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 163
Monday, 26 June 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Re: Bad news, good news
Carvin gear? Overdriven chordal sound? Small rack?
Fellow fan
Re: Allan in latest issue of RUG
"In the Mystery..."
re: Guitar Sales
Selling Guitars By The Pound
Re: "In the Mystery..."
The Harness
Roland & VG-8...
Allan Holdsworth
Re: Allan Holdsworth
Holdsworth vinyl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 00:59:02 -0400
From: hiroomi@panix.com (Hiroomi Nakazawa)
Subject: Re: Bad news, good news
> it is unfortunate that our mysterious mail maniac did not include a
> phone number... if my parsing is right, I think the name of the
> store is "Open 4," if that makes any sense (and if it *does* make
> sense to any of our readers in Japan, I'd love to hear from you).
> So, I suppose Allan unloaded these last month while in Tokyo. Sigh.
>
I saw this ad few months ago on "Guitar Magazine"
.
The name of the store is "Guitar House".
Tel : (03)5380-3086
Owner : Mr.Tasuya Ogawa
Address : Taniguchi Building 2nd FL.
Nakano 5-49-7
Nakano-ku Tokyo 164
Open : 11:00-7:30 Closed on Wednesday and 3rd Tuesday.
I calld there just now, and Mr.Ogawa said the guitar which Mr.AH was
acutually using has been sold already, but, THERE IS ANOTHER GUITAR MR.AH WAS
ACUTUALLY USING. THAT IS BULUE STEINBURGER!
This bule steinburger will be advertized on next issue of "Player" magazine.
(Japanese Magazine).They also carry brand new "Bill Delap" guitars.
Hiroomi Nakazawa
hiroomi@panix.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 03:21:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: cmcdonald@sunbelt.net (Chip McDonald)
Subject: Carvin gear? Overdriven chordal sound? Small rack?
gordoncurrie@medio.net (Gordon Currie) wrote:
>Subject: Holdsworth @ Backstage, Seattle
>
>
>I took a notebook, hoping to jot down my impressions, but more often
Very commendable!
>Here is my (very) random mini-review:
Much appreciated, since apparently he's not going to make it out my
way anytime soon.
>
>Random observations: Allan played through a couple of Carvin (?!?!!!)
>amps, and two small (for him) racks of processing gear. He seemed to
OK, now, why don't you just slow down and transcribe exactly
everything you wrote down about this part? Did it appear to be a new
Carvin model ? Close your eyes now, relax, think back.... Were there
any power amps in his rack? I think he tends to set aside a rack for his
clean sound and one for his dirty sound... was there possibly a duplicate
Carvin processor in both racks? In other words... is the fabled quest for
something that Carvin was supposed to make for him to reduce the amount of
gear he has to haul actually in existence now? Was he fiddling with a
little line mixer at the top of one of the racks now and then? (In other
words, does something in the rack do parallel mixing for him now)
>favor a dryer, less processed sound than in the past, which was in
>contrast to his recorded sound (very lush). His solo sound was
>vocal and throaty, but his chordal sound occasionally got a tad
>muddy and overdriven (the Carvin amps, maybe?).
Are you saying his clean sound, or when he occasionally plays the
distorted chord? Was he using a multiple speaker set up, or maybe is he now
using a unified stereo amp set up (which may not be as clean/clear)? Does
this mean his swell sound wasn't as lush?
>Whew. Hope this (no longer mini) review entertains.
Yes, thanks.
Chip McDonald / cmcdonald@sunbelt.net | Holdsworth-Floyd-Kate-Sarah
"Try to be reasonable whenever possible" | Garden-Niven-WGibson-Marshall
"I too, have been ripped off by Atlanta Rhythm City" | k.d.-Ibanez-Boogie-ADA
FUCKING FUCKLY FUCK the FUCKING Communications Decency Act
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 95 9:08:38 -0400
From: "Mark S. Morris"
Subject: Fellow fan
R. Lynn Rardin,
Could it be? A fellow FDIC-employee/Holdsworth-fan? Feel free to correspond.
Mark
mmorris@fdic.gov
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 22 Jun 1995 07:00:07 PT
From: "Robert Wells"
Subject: Re: Allan in latest issue of RUG
*** Reply to note of 06/21/95 17:45
Information Systems (327-3917)
My apologies...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "ToddM"
Date: 22 Jun 1995 10:25:08CST6CDT
Subject: "In the Mystery..."
[ Moderator's note: Reformatted to less than 80 chars/line. --JP ]
Jeff:
> Yet another piece of mail made its way into my snailmail box today...
> again with the same modus operandii as the previous two: no return
> address nor any hint as to the sender's identity, and the contents
> were photocopies of an advertisement which was obviously Japanese in
> origin.
Doesn't this strike as being a bit weird, Jeff?
How on earth does this person get your mailing address?
> This time, the ads featured guitars -- which is the bad news.
> Two of the guitars were Allan's, and one -- the infamous maple DeLap
> -- was displayed prominently at the top of the page, alongside what
> one might take to be a "certificate of authenticity," of sorts (a
> handwritten note from Allan with an attached Polaroid of him holding
> the guitar).
Ouch. I know that times are tough, but are they this tough that a musicians
tools have to go to the store to generate hard cash?
> The other guitar was a 1963 Gibson SG Custom, with Allan's signature
> on the face. I take it this is the same guitar that was on the cover
> of _Velvet Darkness_.
Bigger ouch. Maybe he doesn't play it anymore or maybe it just gives him bad
memories of the "Velvet Darkness" fiasco. You'd figure a good condition 63
Gibson SG Custom with celebrity implications ought to fetch more moola than
that.
> According to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, as of noon today
> (6/21), the asking prices were $6932.92 for the DeLap (585,000 Yen);
> $5901.87 for the SG (495,000 Yen).
The sad thing is, I know the way music stores work. So Mr. H certainly didn't
receive payment of this magnitude for those guitars. They probably paid as
little as they could get away with and then sold them for ridiculously high
prices. Or maybe I've just had one too many bad experiences with music
stores, but I'm left wondering: what the heck is he going to play when he
goes on tour?
> Not that I believe that anyone reading this could cough up that kind of
> dough on short notice, but it is unfortunate that our mysterious mail
> maniac did not include a phone number... if my parsing is right, I think
> the name of the store is "Open 4," if that makes any sense (and if it
> *does* make sense to any of our readers in Japan, I'd love to hear from
> you).
I wish! I have to be content with the three guitars I do have and that's the
way it is likely to remain unless I win something.
>So, I suppose Allan unloaded these last month while in Tokyo. Sigh.
This is probably why he can tour when venues to play in are few and
revenues can't be terribly high. I really don't like the sound of this.
> The good news? At these prices, I imagine Allan is *immensely*
> popular in Japan. :-/ Oh, and this envelope was postmarked. It
> seems our mystery mailer is mailing from Reading, PA.
That's good news for Allan. Let us hope his popularity remains
undiminished there.
On a different tact, I looked at the personnel listing for the Strange
Advance CD and noted some individuals famed for their work with
rock and roller Kim Mitchell. I hadn't noted that before. I'll try.
and get definitive documentation of this for the record as well as the
Soma disc.
ToddM@laserm.lmt.com
Todd Madson - Associate Technician
LaserMaster Technical Support Services
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 95 12:19:16 -0400
From: "Mark S. Morris"
Subject: re: Guitar Sales
Regarding the discussion of Allan's guitar sales in Tokyo: Why not offer the
gear directly to atavachron subscribers? We're certainly fanatic enough, no?
No reason for a store-owner to broker the deal!
Mark
mmorris@fdic.gov
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 95 09:47:00 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Selling Guitars By The Pound
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
I read the notes on Holdsworth selling off old guitars in Japan. It does seem
a shame that he has to do that - the guitar magazines talk about the heat of
the Japanese market for celebrity paraphernalia so I guess he has chosen
wisely, in terms of the marketplace.
I wonder if he is selling the guitars out of necessity or just to unload them
(make room at home)?
This brings up the next big question - one that may prove blatantly offensive
so my apologies. How much money does an artist of Allan Holdsworth's stature
make? I have a few friends who are working musicians - they make poverty
wages. None of them own homes, or cars, or much of anything.
I realize the expenses of being a musician on the road make it hard to equate
their gross income to a working stiff's income. It just seems that the
material quality of life for most of us who are working outside the arts is
better than for most artists. I know when I was younger I made a conscious
choice to avoid being a working musician as it seemed like I was destined to
be poor the rest of my life. As a middle class kid, that seemed like an
impossible way to live. It's especially daunting to think that someone of
Holdsworth's stature is still struggling financially (Assuming that he is
struggling - certainly many of his interviews suggest that he is always
contemplating leaving music for something more financially secure and stable).
Are there any full-time working musicians out there who would care to comment?
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cpmanuel@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca
http://eps.gov.bc.ca:3893/~cpmanuel/Chris/INDEX.HTML
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 14:37:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Re: "In the Mystery..."
> From: ToddM
> Subject: "In the Mystery..."
> > Yet another piece of mail made its way into my snailmail box today...
> Doesn't this strike as being a bit weird, Jeff?
> How on earth does this person get your mailing address?
Beats me. The only think I can figure is that maybe this person
knows someone with whom I have had correspondence, and it even seems
(from the letter included with the first package) that this person
is reading the list (perhaps via hardcopy).
Btw, the Web page with this stuff looks pretty hosed right now...
I neglected to preview it, and I seem to have left a "/" out of a
closing tag in that top header. I'll see if Randy can't correct
that tonight.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ New Site! http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 22:46:52 -0400
From: jseltz@pond.com (Jeffrey L. Seltzer)
Subject: The Harness
I just got mine today (6/22/95) and it seems to be really cool.
Allan omitted the "requirement for some sore of equalization between the
Harness and the effects/power amp. I priced up the "recommended" model (a
TC Electronics 4-band parametric) - damage = $650 US.
The deal is that the output is a +4 dB so you need a high impedence device
if you currently use a mixer (like a direct box, a TC eq, etc.).
FOrtunately, I use a Roland BX-16 (switchable impedance mixer) set at +4 dB.
Instead of following Allan's instructions, I plugged the thing into my
Roland mixer and it sounds very good - if not great. I think you REALLY
need the EQ to cut feedback.
Some info - if you have the power amp off, you can actually hear sound
coming from the Harness! I guess it resonates. It also "leaks: which cause
some strange noises when you're close to it with the guitar.
Other than that - I picked up a used Mesa Boogie .50 Caliber head just to
use with it. It seems to be a good combo. Nice and fluid and the harness
cans it just right. I'll let you know how things go when I get my TC 1140HS.
Captain Liberal
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 13:04:57 -0700
From: edju@chaph.usc.edu (Edward Ju)
Subject: Roland & VG-8...
>Wasn't it mentioned here that Roland gave AH a VG8 then abruptly
>took it back after they got what they wanted from him?
>
>I hope AH was fairly compensated for his time and trouble.
>--
>Paolo Valladolid
My goodness! That is SO low! I'd think that Roland would want to have
Allan endorse their products, not to mention how much of Allan's creativity
will help Roland putting their new VG-8 in the spotlight! Short-sighted
marketing a$$holes...
Eddie
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 18:27:19 -0400
From: MBDRUMS@aol.com
Subject: Allan Holdsworth
Dear Digest;
Is there any way of sending a demo tape of my drumming
(I am a full time musician\drummer in the Philly area) to
Mr. Holdsworth , for feedback or a possible get together after
his tour? I have collected all his recordings,videos, instructional books,
magazine articles,etc. and feel that I am
very familiar with his musical style of composing. Is this a
pipe dream or a possible reality?
Thank you very much and hope to hear from you soon!
Sincerely,
MB Drums
P.S. I also have a wealth of info on Allan Holdsworth if anyone
is interested. Thanks. MB
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 1995 19:07:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Re: Allan Holdsworth
> From: MBDRUMS@aol.com
> Subject: Allan Holdsworth
> Is there any way of sending a demo tape of my drumming
> (I am a full time musician\drummer in the Philly area) to
> Mr. Holdsworth , for feedback or a possible get together after
> his tour?
Here's Allan's manager's address, from the FAQ file:
Mr. Akira Yada
Arrow Field Productions Inc.
14206 Leadwell St.
Van Nuys, CA 91405
> P.S. I also have a wealth of info on Allan Holdsworth if anyone
> is interested. Thanks. MB
>
If we *weren't* interested, we probably wouldn't be HERE, huh? ;)
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ New Site! http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: r.saggers@ic.ac.uk
Subject: Holdsworth vinyl
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 95 13:46:59 bst
Dear Atavachron
Help! As a vinyl-only based UK Holdsworth fan, I need to know the following:
1) Were Wardenclyffe Tower (or, better, Wardenclyffee Tower +3) and Hard Hat
Area released on vinyl?
2) Where in the UK might they turn up - are there any decent outlets?
I've got Metal Fatigue, Secrets, Atavachron and Conversation Piece (with
Gordon Beck, 1970s), the first two from a shop in Liverpool that seemed
to be up on Holdsworth when I was up there in ca.1989, but I can't remember
what/where it was! Thanks to anyone who can help ...
Rob
---
P.S.: I reckon only putting "Secrets" fifth is a little harsh - I remember
an interview with AH in which he (for once!) seemed actually satisfied with
the way it turned out, but then I've not heard I.O.U. so I can't say!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Canada and U.S. are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
or visit the Atavachron WWW: http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 164
Tuesday, 27 June 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Malicious Gossip, Lies, and The Death of Fusion
The AH show in Winnipeg.....
Re: Malicious Gossip, Lies, and The Death of Fusion
The Carvin connection and Employment opps (for Atavachron posting)
Re: The AH show in Winnipeg.....
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 163
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 163
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 163
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "ToddM"
Date: 26 Jun 1995 11:12:49CST6CDT
Subject: Malicious Gossip, Lies, and The Death of Fusion
I bumped into a musician friend of mine yesterday who mentioned a friend of
his saw Holdsworth and group out at a little club, allegedly in "San Diego",
but evidently was way out on the fringes.
It looks like this friend of a friend was doing some work out in that neck of
the country.
Anyway, this little club had about 50 people in attendance and there was
evidently dispirited morale among the musicians. After the gig, said
aforementioned friend of a friend talked to the group and evidently all
the venues for fusion music are drying up left and right. Fusion certainly
hasn't been a fashionable music in recent years, but evidently the market
for it is drying up even further.
It's not just Allan either. Scott Henderson/Tribal Tech recently released
a dynamite new album ("Reality Check") and evidently Scott has a regular
Wednesday night gig at a local club, but without any members of Tribal Tech
at all. When this friend of a friend had attempted to engage Henderson in
conversation during a break on the topic of "where's Willis and Covington?"
Mr. Henderson evidently grumbled that Willis was "in Colorado" and
"Covington's on the East Coast somewhere" and would say no more.
This same friend (who I ran into at the King Crimson concert) mentioned that
some of the Crimson gang (Gunn, Belew, Bruford, Mastellotto) opted to visit
a local watering hole and Fripp and Levin stayed behind at the hotel that eve.
This other friend of a friend managed to talk to Bruford a bit and he had
allegedly groused that the tour wasn't what he hoped it would have been.
Still, they are the only challenging, adventurous music organization that
seems to be making a profit these days.
So, with these bits of news, Allan selling guitars and venues for this kind
of music drying up left and right and Tribal Tech evidently in disarray,
what does this tell us? That the brief resurgence in popularity of music
of the challenging and adventurous kind is dying? That individuals who
create amazing, beautiful music have to find other occupations while lame
deadbeats of the alternative rock world go on recording their garbage to
mass critical acclaim?
Mind you, much of this is hearsay - but the circumstantial evidence of
Allan selling guitars, some of them custom made (and now the Blue
Steinberger) it appears that things have taken a turn for the worse in
terms of what venues are available.
Let's hope that the UK reunion gives Allan some $ and let's hope that
the straight ahead album gets the publicity it deserves. It really makes
me see red when guys who have been around as long as Allan have to still
struggle. How long can a guy pay his dues before he just chucks it all?
ToddM@laserm.lmt.com
Todd Madson - Associate Technician
LaserMaster Technical Support Services
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 26 Jun 95 09:05:00 -0700
From: SARLIS_DENNIS@Tandem.COM
Subject: The AH show in Winnipeg.....
Friday night..... It was magical.... The oceans parted.... Holdsworth
played Winnipeg!!!!!
I won't pretend to be a seasoned Holdsworth watcher, because it was my
first time:) Before the show, Allan was lounging near the bar, in rapt
conversation with a local. I know Allan would be the first to frown at
this comment, but I was completely star stuck. But, you have to
consider that the only contact I've had with the man is through his
music, televised appearances (very rare), and music magazine interviews.
Therefore, when I went up to say hello, it was short and to the point,
which I hope made it easier. In fact, I swear that he seemed as nervous
as I was when I introduced myself! What a shining example!!!
The show itself was amazing. I was completely blown away. I'm a self
professed music nut, who practices his instrument and writes and records
music constantly. The solos were great, and Allans comping, WOW!!! I
would have to say his chordal work impressed me as much as his soloing!!
Some of voicings seemed so difficult to reach, but he did it....
The purpose of this letter is to, hopefully, give a more detailed
account of Allans gear. Beginning with the guitars.......
He had two Delaps, one with binding on the neck (the backup) and one
with out (the one he used for the entire show). Both had regular scale
lengths. From the guitar, we go to the floor (no wireless, just a
surprisingly short cable, perhaps 10'-15'). There were two Yamaha
stereo volume pedals. The first one in the chain had a stereo signal in
and out, while the second one in the chain had just a mono in and out.
What they controlled, I can only guess. It would depend on whether or
not he was running effects in parallel or not. Perhaps one was a master
volume (the mono) and the stereo pedal was for the clean volume swells??
He wouldn't have used them to split his signal from the Boogie in
stereo, because that wouldn't be TRUE stereo, and I know that's
important to Allan. Anyways, I shouldn't speculate.....
Which leads us to the two racks. They were sitting on to top of a pair
of JBL cabinets which I assume he used as monitors, because he didn't
have a wedge in front of him. The racks themselves were just the
standard foot and a half ones, and they weren't fully loaded. There
were NO Carvin FET amps, like the ones he was pictured with in the
Carvin ads. I couldn't recongnize any familiar looking power amps in
his rack (and I know my gear), so I would assume that he might have
either the new Carvins that were mentioned last issue, OR, something
different. He was messing with the rack on his right several times
during the show. It looked like some sort of line mixer, but I can't be
sure. I couldn't get close enough. On the floor he also had a home made
looking switch box that he used for going from clean to dirty. The
effects themselves were a mix of some TC electronics and perhaps older
ADA?? and Yamaha.
On top of the two racks was the MesaBoogie Dual Rectifier, with the
solid state rectifier turned off. I couldn't see any knob settings.
Behind him, he had a pair of close miked Marshall cabinets, straight?
fronts. They seemed to be the newer type with the big logos on them,
probably JCM800 or 900. On top of those were a pair or Fender Twins,
the ones with the red knobs and the silver grill cloths. They were his
clean amps, because the dirty channel knobs were all set to zero and
only the left indicator light was on.
I know I should have gotten a closer look at the racks, but what
interested me was not the effects, but the sound he got from the Dual
Rectifier. I think after this show, I'll re-assess my evaluation of
that amp. I know it's in the fingers and not the gear, but the sound he
got was amazing.
Thats all for now people....
Regards,
Dennis Sarlis
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: Malicious Gossip, Lies, and The Death of Fusion
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 17:33:39 -0700 (PDT)
Hearing stuff like that makes me glad I have a job with a decent
salary. I may not get to play music for a living but at least
I don't have to worry about where my next meal will be coming
from; let alone where I'll get the money to finance my future
home studio.
I do manage to find interesting live music here in San Diego
but its usually by word of mouth - not well advertised.
I suspect most of the people here involved in creative music
have day jobs like me.
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
----------------------------------------------------------------- |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ |
\ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 16:35:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andre LaFosse
Subject: The Carvin connection and Employment opps (for Atavachron posting)
To reply to two threads from the last digest:
--An article on AH in _Guitar Shop_ magazine (which is a good publication
as long as H.P. Newquist, Juvenile Journalist at Large, stays clear of
it) from about half a year ago said that Allan's main rack is in England,
supposedly to facilitate his gigging over there. He said he was working
with Carvin to design a custom delay unit that would have eight seperate
delay taps for use as his *chorusing* effect. AH's standard method of
producing chorus is not to plug into a chorusing box per se, but rather
string together a variety of different digital delays in line. He claims
that the sound of different brands of delays is much better than several
same-brand units; sounds like he's been reading a few too many Eric
Johnson articles.
--Regarding the issue of "How much does an artist of Holdsworth's stature
make?" which I believe was posited by Chris Manuel (I could be wrong...)
Stature unfortunately has little to do with an artist's income. Some of
the greatest musicians in history have endured very bad economic
conditions even at the height of their art. Mozart was buried in an
anonymous pauper's grave; Wes Montgomery was living in a one-room
apartment with his wife and several children when he died.
It's difficult to generalize about how much musicians make. Jeff Berlin
taught at my school last year, and I had heard talk to the effect that he
was quite well off, possibly even a millionaire. This seems likely,
since Berlin intends to open up his own music school in Florida in the
next year, which can't be an inexpensive proposition. Apparently Berlin
is sufficiently well-off to be able to routinely turn down gigs that pay
less than at least $1,000. Charlie Haden, who also teaches at my school,
supposedly makes close to $500,000 a year, and the bulk of that can't
come from his teaching gig. Just about every teacher at my school, and
just about every professional musician outside of the millionaire rock
star bracket, has to gig *steadily* in order to make ends meet, even the
most high-profile ones.
It's easy to assume that once a person gets their name in a music
magazine, or a CD out in record stores (particularlly on a major label),
or their reputation circled amongst their peers, that they "have it made."
(I remember reading a post on a BBS saying that "Well, Holdsworth's always
getting praised by famous rock guitarists, so he can't be *too* bad off).
I went through years of such a delusion myself during part of my
adolescence. The truth, of course, is very far from that: Even some of
the most famous musicians have to keep gigging and touring, because that's
how they survive.
And Holdsworth seems to reserve practically all of his efforts for his own
music. He once said that he would rather find an alternative vocation
than try to make money playing music that he didn't enjoy, and somehow I'm
not sure how commercially viable his own singular vision would be in a
comercial forum anyway. (Can you imagine what would happen if he applied his
famous "Any group of notes from the scale can work as a chord
substitution" method of harmonic conception to a pop chart?)
The point is that musicians in general are disadvantaged when it comes to
finances, even if they're catering to popular trends of the moment. As
one works further and further from the musical popular mainstream, it
becomes that much more difficult to sustain an income. The musicians I
can think of who do operate in such an experimental realm and are still
able to hold down a living tend to supplement their work either by
lending their talents to a variety of other people's projects (David Torn
comes to mind), or by teaching (a la Steve Tibbetts, Jeff Berlin,
Miroslav Tadic, etc.)
Holdsworth doesn't consider himself a teacher, and he doesn't do much
work aside from his own fringe products. The result is a borderline
economic existence.
Sorry to go on, but this sort of thing has been on my mind of late...
--Andre LaFosse
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 95 23:51:01 EDT
From: "Bob Lynch"
Subject: Re: The AH show in Winnipeg.....
>I know I should have gotten a closer look at the racks, but what
>interested me was not the effects, but the sound he got from the Dual
>Rectifier. I think after this show, I'll re-assess my evaluation of
>that amp. I know it's in the fingers and not the gear, but the sound he
>got was amazing.
I had a Recto for a while and ran it through a Groove Tubes Speaker
Emulator II. Holdsworth city! For those of you who may be skeptical, all I
can say is try it yourself. By itself the Rectifier is untamable for my
tastes, but cranked through a load device it absolutely sings. The only
thing is that with that configuration you can't really get any other sounds.
I couldn't afford to keep it for one sound, unfortunately.
--Bob
_____________________________________________________________________________
Bob Lynch
kabuki@interramp.com
"All that you can take with you is that which you gave away."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 02:39:03 -0400
From: DRUMMER185@aol.com
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 163
>This brings up the next big question - one that may prove blatantly
offensive
>so my apologies. How much money does an artist of Allan Holdsworth's stature
>make? I have a few friends who are working musicians - they make poverty
>wages. None of them own homes, or cars, or much of anything.
Although I am not a personal friend of Allan Holdsworth, a good friend of
mine, Dan Humann, used to mix his albums and go on tour with him. On one
occasion Dan and I traveled down to Allan's to get toasted on good ole Sierra
Nevada Pale Ale. As long as we brought plenty of beer he welcomed us both.
While we drank our brews we discussed Allan's business affairs. At that time
(back in '89) times were pretty tough for him. He lived in a very VERY
modest
home in Orange County with few accommodations. This was much a surprise to me
given his level of international recognition.
As we drank more beer, he spoke about how the music companies were screwing
him over and how he wanted to have the books of the record companies audited.
He felt(probably with good reason) the record companies were not properly
crediting him the for the sales of his recordings. He even showed me various
royalty statements. I really felt sorry for the guy at the time. What he
needed was a good accountant.- perhaps even a good lawyer. I don't know what
Allan has done to change his financial situation these past six years, but I
do know that he has a "job" and name that many a guitar player would kill
for.
Perhaps that is more satisfaction than all the green one could want-
well...almost!
As for Holdsworth selling of guitars, I know he used to essentially give them
away to people he knew. I know Dan had several of his guitars when he used to
work with him. I am sure Allan could afford to do this because the guitar
companies would give him the guitars simply for endorsing their product.
Just thought I would put in my comments.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 08:16:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 163
> From: DRUMMER185@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 163
> Although I am not a personal friend of Allan Holdsworth, a good friend of
> mine, Dan Humann, used to mix his albums and go on tour with him. On one
> occasion Dan and I traveled down to Allan's to get toasted on good ole Sierra
> Nevada Pale Ale. As long as we brought plenty of beer he welcomed us both.
So, are you saying he turned you away when you came empty-handed? :)
Speaking of beer, Morehead has recently been blessed with shipments
of Pete's Wicked products. I have to mention a fondness for their
Honey Wheat... ummm. But even that doesn't match the miracle I found
in South Point, Ohio this past weekend. There's a small carry-out
there that stocks Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. I took twelve home!
Well, that's my off-topic posting for this year. :)
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ New Site! http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 11:36:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Thomas P Hartley
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 163
Hello!
It's very interesting to hear stories of those who have met Allan and/or
have known him personally. What is his personality like? I feel such a
musical bond already.
I would also be very interested to know about his relationship to his home
country. I will be living there during this coming year, studying in
Sheffield. How much time does he spend in England? Where? How might I
support his venues? Where does he shop for gear?
I must wholeheartedly share the sentiments being expressed regarding the
beauty of progressive music such as Allan's and King Crimson's.
This music deserves to prosper, and it has greatly puzzled me for years
that there seems to be so little of it! I'll keep searching....
Tom
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Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 165
Friday, 30 June 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
wages
Re: wages
Re: wages
Wages
re: wages
re: Wages
Finances and Privacy
Re: Wages
re: Wages
Wages
Flames?
Looking for volunteers for a new lesson project
Re: Finances and Privacy
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 08:54:20 -0500
From: Glenn Astarita
Subject: wages
Regarding fusion and making money.. I wonder if the artists aren't making
it,than who is ? If Holdsworth and Tribal Tech don't earn a good living who is
making money off their cd sales ? Why would record companies still extend or
grant long term deals ? Tribal Tech have released several cd's. Same for AH.
On an international basis, looking at the overall picture I would seem to
think that in Japan and Europe alone there are a wealth of fusion fans. South
America, Canada and so forth. Are the record companies reaping all the profits
? If there were no profit there wouldn't be any cd's. To me thats a certainty
in this day and age. I know Henderson periodically teaches and gives clinics.
He like Holdsworth gets around as far as guest appearances go.. Could they be
that bad off ? As far as selling gear..... All musicians are like that !
Especially the ones who use lotsa electronic gear. I've played with guys who
go thru 6 guitars in a year. Just curious about this situation. Part of the
problem with fusion lies within lack of airplay. Far as I know there are no
major commercial radio stations in the USA that play this stuff. In the 70's
while in NYC I used to hear Mahavishnu, RTF to name but a few, on the radio.
The only people who know about this stuff stumble upon it or are introduced
via friends or maybe like us...The Underground, so to speak !
Glenn
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 10:40:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Re: wages
> From: Glenn Astarita
> Subject: wages
> Regarding fusion and making money.. I wonder if the artists aren't making
> it,than who is ? If Holdsworth and Tribal Tech don't earn a good living who is
> making money off their cd sales ? Why would record companies still extend or
> grant long term deals ?
I think you will hear the argument presented (from the industry
mouthpieces) that the sales/profit margin on many artists is marginal,
and many of these artists' records only start to show profits many
years after the record's release. I don't know that I believe this
in actuality, but I'm sure the accountants can make it appear this way
on the ledger books. You'll also hear that the only way the labels
can do business this way is because of the obscene successes of the
Michael Jacksons and Madonnas of the industry, which supposedly
subsidize the less-lucrative acts.
In my opinion, if there is any truth whatsoever to this, the labels
report a loss on these artists and use them as a tax write-off. Hey,
it *is* a business, y'know.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ New Site! http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 95 11:34:40 -0400
From: rardin%orion.dnet@auriga (R. Lynn Rardin)
Subject: Re: wages
>> Regarding fusion and making money.. I wonder if the artists aren't making
>> it,than who is?...
>
> I think you will hear the argument presented (from the industry
> mouthpieces) that the sales/profit margin on many artists is marginal,
> and many of these artists' records only start to show profits many
> years after the record's release. I don't know that I believe this
> in actuality, but I'm sure the accountants can make it appear this way
> on the ledger books...
Wouldn't the majors simply ignore this stuff totally if they weren't making
money off of it? I have a hard time believing that the majors release much
of anything out of a love for the music.
-Lynn
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 11:42:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: X90LESAGE@wmich.edu
Subject: Wages
Glenn raised a good point. What does Allan do with his pay check? Does
anybody out there know him well enough to be able to describe what he does
when a paycheck is put into his hands. Does he invest? Put the money in the
bank? Or, spend it? If he spends spends it, what does he spend it on?
Bills? Ale? Equipment (toys)? Fast food? Are the financial woes more a
result of low income or lack of fiscal responsibility? Just a thought.
Best Regards,
Mark LeSage |
Department of Psychology | "...when [introspectionists] come to
Western Michigan University | analyze consciousness, naturally they find in
Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | it just what they put into it."
Tel: 616-387-4503 |
email: x90lesage@wmich.edu | J.B. Watson (1924, p. 4)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 95 12:38:38 -0400
From: rardin%orion.dnet@auriga (R. Lynn Rardin)
Subject: re: wages
>Glenn raised a good point. What does Allan do with his pay check? Does
>anybody out there know him well enough to be able to describe what he does
>when a paycheck is put into his hands...
Is this really any of our business?? If someone knows Allan well enough to be
able to answer such questions, I'd hope they would have the sense to respect
Allan's privacy and refrain from posting such information in a forum like
Atavachron.
-Lynn
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 95 12:51:46 -0400
From: "Mark S. Morris"
Subject: re: Wages
Maybe Mr. LeSage would like to share what he does with his paycheck? I'm
embarrassed that we discussing AH's personnel finances.
___________________________Original Post___________________________________
Glenn raised a good point. What does Allan do with his pay check? Does
anybody out there know him well enough to be able to describe what he does
when a paycheck is put into his hands. Does he invest? Put the money in the
bank? Or, spend it? If he spends spends it, what does he spend it on?
Bills? Ale? Equipment (toys)? Fast food? Are the financial woes more a
result of low income or lack of fiscal responsibility? Just a thought.
Best Regards,
Mark LeSage |
Department of Psychology | "...when [introspectionists] come to
Western Michigan University | analyze consciousness, naturally they find in
Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | it just what they put into it."
Tel: 616-387-4503 |
email: x90lesage@wmich.edu | J.B. Watson (1924, p. 4)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 95 11:45:47 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Finances and Privacy
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
Feeling a little responsible for the turn the personal finances thread has
taken (I posted the original question about how much AH makes), I'd like to
throw in a few more thoughts. Mark Lesage raised an interesting point, that
sometimes artists are less than practical with their earnings. I think this is
an interesting subject area, but I understand why Lynn Rardin and Mark Morris
were uncomfortable with the thread. I feel a little queasy just asking
financial questions in general.
Alot of artists, like any other self employed people, end up living the feast
or famine cycle. I've certainly experienced the same, as I'm sure a lot of the
Atavachron members have also experienced. The original posting idea was my
attempt to find out if fusion musicians can live a middle class (comfortable)
living from their earnings as musicians. Reference to Jeff Berlin's potential
millionaire status really caught me off guard. I would love to know how that
became possible.
As I'm sure most of the musicians on the Atavachron list can empathize with
the financial constraints that artists like AH must live under I would want to
be sure that there isn't any of that "tone" in our discussions. I refer to the
"tone" that middle class people sometimes take when reflecting on financial
matters - ie. "Why doesn't AH invest his earnings ..." If you're barely making
ends meet I don't think a long term invest plan is going to be a priority.
On another note - I've heard talk of several cabinet simulators and load
devices recently. I wonder, Paolo, if you have a definitive list? I'm still
not 100% happy with the tone I get when I mic my 1X12 Boogie. Now that I've
bought every possible windsurfing accessory (in the world) I'm thinking of
more studio gear.
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cpmanuel@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca
http://eps.gov.bc.ca:3893/~cpmanuel/Chris/INDEX.HTML
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Date: Wed, 28 Jun 95 15:43:21 EDT
From: Daniel Ginsberg
Subject: Re: Wages
I had a buddy of mine check through their trash.
Early reports are disturbing: Far too many earswabs are being
used chez Holdsworth on a day to day basis. Early estimates from the
boys in accounting hover around $20 (US) wasted per year wasted in
earswabs alone. I am awaiting a breakdown on bananapeels and Malt
Vinegar empties; but franky i fear the worst. Why oh why can't our
artists be frugal??
Savoring a diminished sense of worth in an overblown world,
Dan
Field Agent
Finance Oversight Committee
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Paul Morris"
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 17:21:31 +0000
Subject: re: Wages
I think that what AH does or doesn"t do with any earnings are no
ones's business but his and thus this thread should wither and die.
I would hope that with advancements in on-line commerce that those
who would like to support any artist with purchases of music and any
assorted paraphenalia, could do so (ie digicash) and that AH, in this
instance, could then be compensated in a manner that would allow them
to make their works very accessible and themselves well paid.
paul
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 18:42:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: X90LESAGE@wmich.edu
Subject: Wages
I greatly appreciate the flames regarding my last post. I agree that we
should limit our discussions of Allan to analyses of his musical repertoire.
I wasn't interested in Allan's *specific* fiscal behaviors (granted I
didn't make that clear). Rather, I wanted to further illuminate the good
point that Glenn made (indirectly), that when one observes a person having
a hard time making ends meet it could be the result of two things. Either
the person's income is to low or the income is sufficient but the person
spends it on things that aren't involved in making ends meet, or some
combination of the two. After reading about how Allan spends so much on
expensive instruments and then "practically gives them away," I wondered
if such behavior was backfiring on him. Although extreemly altruistic, can
he afford to do such things?
I'm interested in all of Allan Holdsworth. Hence, I contemplate every aspect
of his behavior (not just musical behavior). From now on I will refrain from
offering to the group analyses of Allan's nonmusical behavior that might be
considered too personal.
Sorry for going out of bounds.
Best Regards,
Mark LeSage |
Department of Psychology | "...when [introspectionists] come to
Western Michigan University | analyze consciousness, naturally they find in
Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | it just what they put into it."
Tel: 616-387-4503 |
email: x90lesage@wmich.edu | J.B. Watson (1924, p. 4)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 95 17:07:51 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Flames?
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
Mark,
I hope my note didn't come across as a flame. In re-reading, the middle-class
"tone" jibe was meant for me, not you. I hope you didn't read it the way I
wrote it, but rather the way I intended. ;-)
I agree that sometimes people piss and moan about not making enough money.
These are the same people who have hungry kids, but always enough money to hit
the bar Saturday night. I doubt our Hero is of this type.
Personally, I'm interested in the guy's music, but as a musician I'm also
interested in the process of making music, including figuring out how to
balance art with commerce. So, how much does he make, anyway?
'Nuff said?
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
cpmanuel@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca
http://eps.gov.bc.ca:3893/~cpmanuel/Chris/INDEX.HTML
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 15:15:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Looking for volunteers for a new lesson project
Calling all guitar tab-meisters!
Do you seek fortune and fame? Well, we'll see what we can do about
that fame thing, but you're on your own regarding that "fortune" bit.
:) Here's the idea: I'd like to communicate with someone who'd like
to volunteer to put together a bit of tablature, along with a lesson
centered around ONE of Allan's CDs. Just one. I *would* like for at
least 4-5 examples to be given (an example being, for instance,
tab/notation on, say, four measures out of a tune, with accompanying
text, performance notes, reasons for including it in the lesson and/or
what specific technique it demonstrates). The goal is semi-secret
at this stage, but I can tell you that (with everyone's approval,
of course) it will be a part of the AtavaWWW, and it will utilize
a new, as-yet-unseen technology. I'll do all the HTML coding, etc.,
and will allow the lesson's author to retain all rights to the
content.
"But Jeff! That sounds like WORK!" :) You bet. But I let you guys
loaf around here for free all the time -- here's your chance to pick
up all those virtual beer bottles. ;) If this piques your interest,
drop me a line at jeff@addimension.com and let's chew the fat.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ New Site! http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: Finances and Privacy
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 22:02:01 -0700 (PDT)
> On another note - I've heard talk of several cabinet simulators and load
> devices recently. I wonder, Paolo, if you have a definitive list? I'm still
> not 100% happy with the tone I get when I mic my 1X12 Boogie. Now that I've
> bought every possible windsurfing accessory (in the world) I'm thinking of
> more studio gear.
>
> Chris Manuel
> BC Systems Corporation, Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
> cpmanuel@bcsc02.gov.bc.ca
> http://eps.gov.bc.ca:3893/~cpmanuel/Chris/INDEX.HTML
>
No I don't have such a list but I will happily compile
reviews. Maybe I should post something to rec.music.makers.guitar;
in case the denizens there can take time out from begging
for free Strats and preaching to each other how Jimmy Page
is the greatest guitarist on God's Green Earth.
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Postings to: ::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
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For more info, send HELP as the first ,,::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::,,
line in e-mail to the listserv above. ::: ]] [[ :::
: :::::: ]] . [[ :::::: :
All opinions expressed herein are / :: ] ::: [ :: \
those of the individual contributors. I I
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Canada and U.S. are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
or visit the Atavachron WWW: http://www.addimension.com/holdsworth/