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Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 139
Sunday, 2 April 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Re: Ubiquitous Holdsworth
Gary Husband/Billy Cobham Quartet
Gary H, CDs source, etc.
Re: Ubiquitous Holdsworth
Marcia Brady Lives!
Re: Ubiquitous Holdsworth
Re: Billy Husband/Gary Cobham 4
Re: Ubiquitous Holdsworth
AH's axes?
Chad's brother
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard Huddleston
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 18:59:40 -0500
Subject: Re: Ubiquitous Holdsworth
* From: "Chris Manuel"
* Subject: Ubiquitous Holdsworth
*
* *** Reply to note of 03/25/95 08:32
* Richard Huddleston wrote about Joe Pass recognizing Holdsworth 17 years ago.
*
* I'm amazed that Joe Pass was aware and an admirer of AH then, or now, for that
* matter. I'd mentally put the two in very different camps. The fact that Pass
* found value in AH's playing increases my desire to hear AH in the standards
* context.
If I'm not mistaken, Joe Pass was a contributor to _Guitar Player_ magazine
at around the period that this took place. He could easily have run into
Allan's playing in the course of rubbing elbows with everybody else in that
environment.
Besides, Joe is a *jazz* guitarist; jazz musicians are genetically compelled
to be hip. ;)
Richard
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Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 10:56:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Paul Mason
Subject: Gary Husband/Billy Cobham Quartet
February 15, 1995
Richards on Richards, a night club in Vancouver
Billed as Billy Cobham's quartet with Gary Husband playing keyboards, Kai
Eckhardt playing bass and Peter Wolpl playing a guitar.
So, picture the venue, the kind of place where you'd normally find
"sexual incompetents encountering each other under disco circumstances"
( Zappa, 1993 ) - it actually has a mirror ball!! Next, dim the lights, the
announcer's voice, overamplified and reverbed to death ( sounds as if
he's presenting the monster truck and tractor pull in a giant mud
bath.... ), introducing "a night of incredible music with Billy Cobham on
drums, Billy Husband on Keyboards ( yes, that's right, Billy Husband.... ).
So, the guys take the stage and proceed to play a lot of Cobham's music,
much of it recent and pretty pedestrian stuff.
What this accomplished was the burial of any real excitement that these
four greats should have been able to deliver.
Cobham can still play, although he seems to be regurgitating the same old
licks he's been using for the last fifteen years - he's stopped trying to
be creative, which is a great pity coming from someone who once simply
re-wrote the book on the art of playing drums. And his writing is a bit
thin - tunes like "Cuba On The Horizon" are pretty nice but nothing like
the adventurous stuff of yesteryear, and the obligatory "Red Baron" still
gets the punters on their feet but, overall, he'd do well to get some
outside material.
Husband was interesting as a keyboardist although not as interesting as he's
been on Holdsworth's recordings. This I would attribute to the limitations of
the music, uninspiring as most of it was. He is most definitely a technically
fluent player and did turn in some nice solos but, overall, didn't seem to
shine as he has in other settings. For me, however, having never seen him play
live at all, it was a treat. Gary did get to play drums as well, a duet of
sorts with Cobham playing percussion and kit. Gary's drumming actually
surprised me in that he's got a surprisingly light touch ( I've always
imagined him to be physically more aggressive but he's amazingly gentle with
his approach). And he has a far more exploratory sense at the kit than
does Billy ( at least these days ) and that was beautiful to see.
Overall the crowd was extremely enthusiastic, and that is always great to
see, mirror ball or not....
This really isn't supposed to b a comparison of two drummers - hope it
isn't coming across that way - but they are quite opposed in just about
every way and I guess the A/B thing is inevitable to a degree.
And Eckhardt and Wolpl deserve mention although neither was particularly
noteworthy ( particularly surprising coming from Eckhardt, who I've
always thought to be quite astonishing ).
All in all an evening which promised much more than it delivered. I
suppose we should be thankful that these guys are able to go out on the
road at all, and I'm not complaining about having had the opportunity to
be there and hear the music. It's also unfair, I suppose, to believe that
Cobham should be able to perpetuate the kind of staggering innovation
he's been known for in the past ( if you look at life-long careers
anywhere they almost always have their high points with a lot of
"average" in between ).
But I thought it worth commenting on this event for posterity.
I can't help but look forward to Gary Husband coming to Vancouver with
Allan Holdsworth, though, especially having been so thoroughly blown away
with "Hard Hat Area"
All the best,
Paul Mason
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 95 21:38:59 GMT
From: jennifer@material.demon.co.uk (Jennifer Moore)
Subject: Gary H, CDs source, etc.
hi people
just catching up with a big backlog of atavachron!
Firstly, although I can't find the original message now, I believe
someone was after AH CDs in the UK. Mark Ringwood (AH's agent here)
has some for sale mail order, I'd asked him about this recently for
a friend & I quote
> Yes, I've Hard Hat Area, Wardenclyffe Tower, Secrets
> to unload @ L12 inc P & P
Mark's address: 3 The Lilacs, 50 Elm Grove, Hayling Island,
England, PO11 9EF
Cheques to *Marco Polo*, that's the agency name.
When I saw your enquiry (whoever it was) I asked Mark shall I
post the CD info to the net? and he said
> Yes, please list, also add that Gary Husband has been
> asked to record with John McLaughlin and Jeff Beck - on
> the same album. GH is currently on tour with Billy Cobham,
> then goes to Japan for a tour with another mob.
("currently" being 19 March).
With regard to GH not playing with Allan now, it did cross my mind
to wonder if geography might have been a factor, Gary being UK-based.
I know that at the start of the last tour here the rehearsals were only
for a couple of days before the tour (which I gather was why the set
was so similar to the previous one). Just a thought - I'm sure there
must be other factors at play as well, but seems to me it must make a
difference.
trfn
--
Jennifer * a k a SINGLE BASS * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* "manages to make the bass fill the space *
* most people need a band for" - Scene & Heard *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: Ubiquitous Holdsworth
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 16:54:32 -0800 (PST)
> Pass looked at me, and my guitar, and said, "Right. If you other guys
> want to have any future as guitarists, then go get a guitar like that
> one and buy some Holdsworth albums. Forget about playing like me."
>
> Richard
I too was surprised to read this story. This brings to mind a
recent Guitar Player feature on today's generation of jazz
guitarists. While just about all the others felt they could not
have an original voice until they had finished studying the old
masters before them, Kevin Eubanks pointed out that young jazz
guitarists tend to ignore just about everyon who came after Wes
Montgomery. It was as if the innovations of John McLaughlin,
Allan Holdsworth and Pat Martino never took place.
I have notice quite a few ex-rockers who take up jazz and in the
process get a hollowbody or semi-hollowbody guitar just because
"it looks cool" or "its the right guitar for jazz".
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 20:16:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Marcia Brady Lives!
> From: edumark@ix.netcom.com (chris hoard)
> Subject: Soma Dis, Soma DAT...
> I guess the secret's out, the sacred Gleedist did don the stage name
> Mark Lauren for the Soma project.
Aha! So THAT'S who T. Markham Gleed is! I wondered about that (but
didn't wanna blow my coolness by admitting cluelessness); he sent a nice
letter along with my _Soma_ LP. For all I could grok, he was some guy at
Occidental (which I suppose is also true, y'know).
> I do think it's time AH
> considered working on another project that involved songs and vocals--apart
> from his band work. I enjoyed HHA and WT tremendously. However, I think
> a rock project involving AH might get more attention now, than Metal Fatigue
> ever did ten years ago.
Hmmmm... I don't know about that. If by "attention" you mean "critical
acclaim," I'm not so sure; if you mean "sales," surely NOT! I think Allan
-- by design, keen observation or by accident -- has identified his rock
constituency in the metal market; it seems to me to be the only rock
sub-genre which pays homage to and has appreciation for his talents at
this point in time (note I did not say I was HAPPY with that assessment!).
If he were to give up the tune-writing duties to another guitarist who
would write fairly-straightforward metal tunes, I think he'd have a big
seller in the racks, but I don't think it's worth it. I really think the
jazz community, though he has been afforded little respect in it in the
past, is Allan's best hope for getting "attention" -- of ANY kind. I think
Allan has yet to reach his zenith, and I also think there are certain
stigmata formerly attached to the F-word (fusion) which are fading in
jazz circles. I think this will lead to renewed interest in Allan's
compositional skills, and afford him an opportunity to work with people
who we might have previously not thought likely. Time will tell, but
that's where I have laid my bets.
> The level of vocalist AH would work best with, would be someone who stands
> out in the crowd as much as he does--and those guys already fill up
> stadiums (i.e., Sting, Peter Gabriel, ... Seal would be an ideal team-up,
> BTW, he did do something with Jeff Beck on that Hendrix tribute album...).
Any of these guys would be great, sure! But I don't consider them a
part of the rock scene -- in my mind, they are more pop (and I am
differentiating by way of the fact that in modern rock, it is rare to
have anything other than guitar as the rhythmic, chording instrument,
whereas in pop, keyboard and piano as often as not fill that role), and
I can see Allan more readily in a successful pop setting than in a
successful modern rock setting.
> I couldn't agree more... I was never crazy about the vocals, but Mark's
> singing is much improved since then--and on a couple of the demo tracks
> I produced for him, I found myself really taken by lyric lines... Jeff
> has heard some of the new material.
Well, I had to comment since my name was taken in vain... ;) I really
can't speak to a comparison of the vocals -- although I *have* the _Soma_
LP, I have YET to HEAR the thing (no turntable)! All I can say is if
Neverwasneverwillbe features a MUCH improved Gleed vocal, I am almost
afraid to hear _Soma_. :) Sorry, Chris... the tunes are great, but the
vocals could use some work (of course, I admire anyone who has the guts
to commit their singing to tape -- my own is quite horrendous)! ;) I'm
sure the lyrics are fine, too, but since my narrow brain pathways pay so
little attention to lyrics, I'll have to plead ignorance there, as well.
> Indeed, this Hoardman did dine with Mr. Gleed and Miss McCormick on several
> occasions, and indeed THE Marcia Brady (every American pre-teen male's 70s
> whitebread fantasy...) does appear on "Hair Action"...
Heh heh heh... this reminded me of and episode of the recently-cancelled
FOX sit-com, "Herman's Head," where Maureen had a guest appearance. The
lead character (Herman, obviously) gets to meet Maureen, who plays herself
in the episode. She and Herman hit it off pretty well, and she is
especially impressed with the fact that he can disassociate the Brady
character --in which she feels irreparably typecast -- from the real
McCormick. Of course in "Herman's head," the various facets of his
personality are alternately acting out adolescent fantasies, etc. in
regards to Marcia Brady, and after a charming evening, they go back to
his apartment, where he promptly calls her "Marcia" and puts an abrupt
ending to the proceedings. :) I bet she really DOES feel typecast,
too... call it the Leonard Nimoy Syndrome, if you will... ;)
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/home.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 08:53:07 PST
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Re: Ubiquitous Holdsworth
*** Reply to note of 03/29/95 17:24
Interesting thread on hollow bodies and mainstream jazzers.
Anyone seen Ed Bickert play mainstream? He uses a Telecaster with a humbucker
on the neck. He gets the best fat jazz sound imaginable. I had an ES175
thinline (shallow body, no tone block). It was an early seventies guitar that
was supposed to make me sound like a jazz player. It was a total howling
monster to play live - you had to eq so severely to kill the feedback that it
ended up sounding like a Telecaster. Hmmmm.
I don't have a hollowbody anymore. When I get the fat jazz need I eq my Les
Paul and pretend. It works for me. The real trick is to use a fatter pick!
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation
V: 604.389.3503 F:360.7285
CPMANUEL@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 07:18:27 +0100
From: rene@via.nl (Rene Janssen)
Subject: Re: Billy Husband/Gary Cobham 4
Thanx Paul,
I enjoyed your concertreview. I agree with you on your comments about
Billy's playing. The hipness isn't there anymore, pity though.. for
such an influencial drummer Billy has been. (Or was it the mirror-ball with
the invisible hipness-destructive atmosphere.. )
About Gary.. Does he still have that weird drum setup ? You know with
the small 10" tom on his right ,and the larger 13" or so in the middle ?
You cannot blaim him.. he's *English* . (where the cars ride on the
wrong lane.. )
Rene.
\/
/\
rene@via.nl || The Netherlands
http://www.via.nl/users/rene/rene.html
Vinnie: "If you go to Neptune you will notice live is not possible there. So
next time you get there you'll have to have a space-suit"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: Ubiquitous Holdsworth
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 1995 16:31:08 -0800 (PST)
> *** Reply to note of 03/29/95 17:24
> Interesting thread on hollow bodies and mainstream jazzers.
>
> Anyone seen Ed Bickert play mainstream? He uses a Telecaster with a humbucker
> on the neck. He gets the best fat jazz sound imaginable. I had an ES175
> thinline (shallow body, no tone block). It was an early seventies guitar that
> was supposed to make me sound like a jazz player. It was a total howling
> monster to play live - you had to eq so severely to kill the feedback that it
> ended up sounding like a Telecaster. Hmmmm.
>
> I don't have a hollowbody anymore. When I get the fat jazz need I eq my Les
> Paul and pretend. It works for me. The real trick is to use a fatter pick!
I think this goes back to that old saw: "Your sound is in your hands".
I play a bastard Gibson myself; the guys at Guitar Trader tell me
it was originally ordered from Gibson by the original owner in 1970
as a 355 with 335 neck. I just happen to like the sound of air
resonating within the guitar; I didn't getit because "it's the
right guitar for jazz". Actually some would think it looks hideous
because of the walnut finish. I like the ease of which I can
get feedback to sustain notes but I concede that this very quality
would be disadvantageous in super high gain situations (like
thrash metal). I look to Fred Frith (a non-jazzbo who abuses a 335) for
inspiration sometimes.
I guess I take after Holdsworth in that I find the stereotypical
"jazz guitar tone" to be rather dull (he says that he likes players
with a lively tone like Jimmy Raney).
At the risk of diluting the discussion even more, someone told me
the story of an instrument builder who built a violin out of granite
to demonstrate the power of a good EQ.
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Marzzz@troubbs.org (Marshall Craig)
Subject: AH's axes?
Date: 01 Apr 1995 15:27:39 GMT
Last time I saw AH play (unfortunately, a couple of years ago) he was playing
Steinberger GL series guitars (the tiny, headless/bodyless ones). What is he
using currently?
Sent via The Rest Of Us BBS - Chicago MUG - Internet gateway
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 16:44:30 -0400
From: RickerRA@aol.com
Subject: Chad's brother
Several years ago, I saw Chad's brother playing with Kazumi Watanabe and
Bunny Brunel. Does anyone know what he's up to these days?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 140
Sunday, 9 April 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 139
News & A Question
Allan wears glasses?
Chad's brother
Re: News & A Question
Remarks on Chris Manuel's Remarks.
Who is Ollie?
Re: Who is Ollie?
Who is Ollie?
Re: Allan wears glasses?
New AH
Road Games credits/Substandard beer
Re: Road Games credits/Substandard beer
Re: Road Games credits/Substa...
Paradox vs. Prism vs. Connors
AH imports
*** Tour Dates for Japan, Australia, more ***
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 19:17:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Mason
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 139
Re: Rene Janssen's Drumkit Enquiry
Rene,
On the night reviewed he actually used a standard 10", 12", 13" rack, 16"
floor tom set-up with only a couple of crashes and a ride. Even Cobham's
kit was severely reduced in size to fit the small stage ( they're
probably on a club tour ), with only one bass drum.
Regards,
Paul
P.S. actually, there are people in Vancouver who drive on the wrong side
of the road, too - whether they're British or just taxi drivers I'm not
entirely sure....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:12:10 -0400
From: RJuster@aol.com
Subject: News & A Question
Hello--I am new to this forum but a big AH fan for some time. Sounds like a
lot of guitarists so you probably know this. This month's Guitar Player
(5/95) has an ad for a Roland demo tape that includes, among other things,
AH. (Also appearing is Wierd Al Yankovic; whether the two play together I
can't say).
Question: Does anybody know the contents of the AH CD put out by JIMCO
(Japan)? Its just called Allan Holdsworth. I presume it is a (legitimate)
"best of" disc. Thanks. P.S.--The laserdisc is out of print, right?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 23:01:14 -0700
From: edju@chaph.usc.edu (Edward Ju)
Subject: Allan wears glasses?
In the latest issue of Guitar for the Practicing Musician, there's a
photo of Allan with his Steinberger guitar in the article on the history of
chops. You can see that Allan has a pair of glasses above his forehead, and
I was wondering if those are just reading glasses or does he wear contacts?
Eddie
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 22:22:00 -0400
From: PMARR@morgan.com
Subject: Chad's brother
I saw him on VH-1 playing with Lyndsay Buckingham of Fleetwood Mac.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 10:12:28 -0500
From: uchima@fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Subject: Re: News & A Question
RJuster@aol.com wrote:
> Question: Does anybody know the contents of the AH CD put out by JIMCO
> (Japan)? Its just called Allan Holdsworth. I presume it is a (legitimate)
> "best of" disc. Thanks. P.S.--The laserdisc is out of print, right?
If you're talking about the CD that says "Best Works" on it, then no -- from
what I understand, it's *not* legit, and calling it a "best of" disc is quite
a stretch as well. Jeff may be able to elaborate further on the circumstances
relating to this CD. Content-wise, it's basically a mixed bag of stuff taken
mostly from Allan's collaborations with Gordon Beck; there are also a couple
of cuts from Soft Machine's _Bundles_, and one cut taken from the MVP CD
(w/Frank Gambale). With the possible exception of some of the older Gordon
Beck material, pretty much everything on this CD is available through other
(legitimate) channels; don't waste your money.
Don't know anything about the laserdisc...
-- Mike Uchima
-- uchima@fnal.fnal.gov
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "ToddM"
Date: 3 Apr 1995 11:27:37CST6CDT
Subject: Remarks on Chris Manuel's Remarks.
[Moderator's note: Reformatted to under 80 chars/line. --JP]
Chris Manuel posed an interesting question:
> Here's a question for the players on the list: when you're recording solos, do
> you ever know a take is "the one" immediately?
Indeed! I can tell while recording since I get a tingly feeling and the
hair stands up on my arms and I get goosebumps. I usually try not to focus
on this while it is happening since if I think: "Oh geez, I'm really flying"
I'll be like a 50-legged centipede that trips on its legs. My guess is that
Allan just plays and what gets recorded is what happens.
But if I listen to the lines and try to react (or not react) to the way
they are winding over the chord progressions of the weird material I write
I usually end up with a result I can deal with.
Also, I try not to "force it" while playing. If I'm three to four minutes
into a solo that I've liked so far I play what I feel is appropriate for the
track. "Forcing it", in my mind is acting on any bright ideas I might have
"I should play fast here or I should play slow here" - I try to just play
and what happens happens. Sometimes I think of emphasizing a certain
modality during an excursion. I don't think: "what would Al Doofameasly do
here?"
I generally do my composing and soloing late at night so I don't get
disturbed by the cat trying to lie down in the guitar case (or trying to do
something else I won't mention in the guitar case) or the phone ringing or
the wife-to-be beckoning.
Back to Allan: any ideas as to when this "straight ahead" record will be
released and on what record label?
ToddM - Associate Technician
LaserMaster Technical Support
Services
ToddM@laserm.lmt.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 15:15:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Who is Ollie?
Bob Lynch has asked "Who is Ollie Halsell?" on a couple of occasions,
and we've been blithely ignoring him... how rude! :) I'm sorry I didn't
get to this earlier, Bob, but I honestly don't know much about him. I
know he played guitar on Tempest's _Living In Fear_, and that I mistook
the playing on that album for Allan's. I also seem to recall that Ollie
was a founder of the band Patto (?); I am sure the guys on the Usenet
newsgroup 'alt.music.progressive' could fill you in on much more.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/home.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 16:06:26 EDT
From: "Bob Lynch"
Subject: Re: Who is Ollie?
I knew I would get an answer eventually. I once read an interview with Allan
where he spoke very highly of Ollie's playing. I'll post to
alt.music.progressive, and if I get any substantial responses, I'll let the
group know.
--Bob
> Bob Lynch has asked "Who is Ollie Halsell?" on a couple of occasions,
> and we've been blithely ignoring him... how rude! :) I'm sorry I didn't
> get to this earlier, Bob, but I honestly don't know much about him. I
> know he played guitar on Tempest's _Living In Fear_, and that I mistook
> the playing on that album for Allan's. I also seem to recall that Ollie
> was a founder of the band Patto (?); I am sure the guys on the Usenet
> newsgroup 'alt.music.progressive' could fill you in on much more.
>
> Jeff
>
>--
> Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
> to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
>Web Page URL \\\ http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/home.html
>
_____________________________________________________________________________
Bob Lynch
GES (JvNCnet)
3 Independence Way, Princeton, NJ 08540
Voice: 609-897-7335 Fax: 609-897-7310
Pager: 800-SKY-PAGE PIN# 2779243
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 14:05:14 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Who is Ollie?
*** Reply to note of 04/03/95 12:24
I have vinyl evidence of "Who is Ollie?". The record in question features
Brian Eno, Kevin Ayers, and many others. I think it's called "June 1, 1974" or
something to that effect. (It's stored away in the garage, otherwise I'd
confirm the name.) It's been years since I played it but I seem to remember it
was fun: offering a great rendition of Eno's "Baby's On Fire".
Let's start a rumour that Ollie Halsell is Allan Holdsworth :-)
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation
V: 604.389.3503 F:360.7285
CPMANUEL@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: Allan wears glasses?
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:47:16 -0700 (PDT)
> In the latest issue of Guitar for the Practicing Musician, there's a
> photo of Allan with his Steinberger guitar in the article on the history of
> chops. You can see that Allan has a pair of glasses above his forehead, and
> I was wondering if those are just reading glasses or does he wear contacts?
>
> Eddie
Yep, when I saw him at Guitars West preparing for his clinic, he
put on a pair of specs before poring over his equipment trying to
identify the source of some humming noise.
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
----------------------------------------------------------------- |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ |
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 09:00:23 -0500
From: Glenn Astarita
Subject: New AH
Hi,
Did someone mention AH is currently in the studio recording a "jazz" session ?
If so, who are the players ?
Thanks,
Glenn
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 95 05:55:21 CDT
From: Bill=Purcell%TS=SysCall%CS=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
Subject: Road Games credits/Substandard beer
On the back of my Road Games LP, Allan offers the following:
"This album is dedicated to two truly great musicians and special friends,
Pat Smythe and Robert Cornford." Any information on who these gentlemen are
and what instruments they play? I don't recall ever seeing individual
credits for either guy on any other albums or songs.
Allan also thanks Edward Van Halen, Frank Zappa, and *Coors* !! After the
initial shock of reading this name which is considered profane in more
erudite circles of breweriana culture, I decided to write it off as a
possible reflection of the financial situation AH faced at the time. After
all, one of these days, I'll have to explain to my progeny that while
attending college, the only malt beverage product I could afford was the
occasional 6-pack of Schaefer Light! Oh, the humanity!
On the subject of beer, I read in earlier posts that AH might be thinking
about entering the microbrewery business. In addition to offering my humble
services as brewmaster :), I was wondering if AH might be interested in
receiving some homebrew of the highest quality ... silly question, knowing
that he's a beer lover. My brother and I have perfected several recipes,
including a wonderful British pale ale and an Irish stout. Current
selections include a stout, a Bavarian wheat, a Barleywine ale (10% alc.) and
a Scottish ale. Oh well, now that I've evoked a Pavlov-inspired response
from everyone, I'd better sign off ...
Take care,
--- Bill Purcell ---
Holdsworth Metheny Johnson Malmsteen Segovia Morse Satriani
Listen ...
Learn ...
Live ...
Love.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 1995 11:39:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: X90LESAGE@wmich.edu
Subject: Re: Road Games credits/Substandard beer
Bill,
As I drool over my keyboard, I'm wondering if you would be interested
in sharing (at a price, of course) your brews with interested list members,
like me :) I'm always interested in trying good home brews.
Best Regards,
Mark LeSage |
Department of Psychology | "...when [introspectionists] come to
Western Michigan University | analyze consciousness, naturally they find in
Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | it just what they put into it."
Tel: 616-387-4503 |
email: x90lesage@wmich.edu | J.B. Watson (1924, p. 4)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 19:23:42 -0400
From: RickerRA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Road Games credits/Substa...
Wait a minute beer guys. Remember that it was 1983 when Road Games was
recorded. I'm sure many of us can related to being on tour and finding
nothing but the major brewer's crap available at the club. And for a devoted
beer drinking Brit such as Allan, touring the states 1983 must have been
hell.
Consider that the first three brewpubs in California open in 1983. Only a
handful of small breweries existed nation wide -- and they were by no means
widely available. While it may seem slow to many of us beer die-hards, in
reality the micro-brewing revolution has occurred at a rapid pace in the US.
About Coors -- well it's not Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, but even beer authority
Michael Jackson rates it above domestic brews Budweiser, Bush, Miller, Pabst
and Stroh, and even over the common imports available in 1983 - Beck's, St.
Pauli and Heineken... And the fact that Coors is not pasteurized helps.
LET NO ONE GET ME WRONG, I DO NOT PARTICULARLY CARE FOR COORS!!! But, I'll
order one in a bind.
Brew on..
Reed Ricker
rickerra@aol.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 02:49:41 -0400
From: RJuster@aol.com
Subject: Paradox vs. Prism vs. Connors
The mention of Paradox piqued my curiosity but this sort of disc has made the
term "fusion" as popular as "liberal democrat". Sure, they play great &
there is a Tokyo Dream quasi-ripoff but the the solos sound like AH w/a
fuzztone and IMHO the music is unrelentingly dissonant--like the opening
chords of Danger Money but for 45 mins. There is another Japanese AH
wannabe, one Akira Wada, with the group Prism. He doesn't really sound like
AH either but the band sings in English--which they don't understand--and its
pretty amusing.
To me, Bill Connors really does sound a lot like AH--and that's quite an
accomplishment. BC's tunes are interesting, not just the solos.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 1995 12:45:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: X90LESAGE@wmich.edu
Subject: AH imports
I noticed that no imports are listed in the WWW discography. Is this
something AH objected to? If so, what was his rationale? If not,
is it because of the lack of quality or legitimacy of many imports?
I found a couple imports yesterday (couldn't buy them though, no cash :( ).
I was wondering if anybody has heard these and, if so, what they thought
of them.
The first is entitled _Allan Holdsworth_Quartet_, on the All of Us label
distributed by Minotauro Records out of Italy. It was recorded live
in London 11/26/78. Band members: AH; Harold Fisher, drums; Pat Smith,
piano; and Danyl Aumswick, bass. Set: Questor, Smatter, What a night doing
with you, Where is one?, and a 19 min improvasation at the end.
The second import is a UK CD entitled "United Kingdom Tour Memories." On
the same label, All of Us. I didn't write down the set. No other info
on the cover.
Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks
Mark LeSage |
Department of Psychology | "...when [introspectionists] come to
Western Michigan University | analyze consciousness, naturally they find in
Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | it just what they put into it."
Tel: 616-387-4503 |
email: x90lesage@wmich.edu | J.B. Watson (1924, p. 4)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 15:03:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: *** Tour Dates for Japan, Australia, more ***
The following tour dates for Allan Holdsworth have been confirmed
(another big thanks goes to Claire Holdsworth for the information):
May 2 - 6 Tokyo The Pit Inn
May 9 - 11 Sydney The Basement
May 14 Brisbane Van Gogh's Earlobe
May 16 - 17 Melbourne Grainstone
May 18 Adelaide Cartoons
The following dates are tenative, but updates will be available;
you can finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the updates or
point a Web browser at the following URL:
http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/dates.html
... for the most current information. Due to a torque converter
malfunction, the WWW page will not be updated until 4/10/95.
Tenative Dates
--------------
June 14 Solana Beach (San Diego) The Belly Up
June 19 Sacramento Board Walk
June 10 Seattle Back Stage
^^
maybe 20?
June 23 Winnipeg, MB The Pyramid
June 24 Saskatoon, SK Adam Ballroom
June 26 Edmonton, AB Westin Hotel
June 28 Vancouver, BC Commodore
June 29 Toronto, ON Festival
June 30-July 1 Quebec, PQ Bar Spectacle
July 7 Northampton, MA Pearl Street
July 8 Huntington, NY IMAC
July 11 Piermont, NY Turning Point
July 12 Philadelphia, PA Theatre of Living Arts
July 13 Morgan, NJ Club Bene
July 14 - 15 New York, NY Bottom Line
That's all for now!
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/home.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I ========= End of Atavachron Digest =========
\ :::: ]I[ :::: /
: ::::::: ]] [[ ::::::: : Administrative requests to:
::: ]] [[ ::: listserv@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
''::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::''
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ ::: Postings to:
::: =a=t=a=v=a=c=h=r=o=n= ::: atavachron@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
,,::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::,, For more info, send HELP as first
::: ]] [[ ::: line in e-mail to the listserv above.
: :::::: ]] . [[ :::::: :
/ :: ] ::: [ :: \ All opinions expressed herein are
I I those of the individual contributors.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Japan, Australia and more are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 141
Tuesday, 11 April 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Re: tour dates
Road Game credits/Substandard beer
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 140
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 140
Substandard beer and homebrewing
Gongzilla; Coors
The Allan Holdsworth Harness
Coors
1st posting
Re: The Allan Holdsworth Harness
What's the difference? Harness vs. The Other Leading Brand
Re: What's the difference? Harness vs. The Other Leading Brand
Top Secret! World's Cheapest Power Attenuator
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 95 15:40:36 -0400
From: rardin%orion.dnet@auriga (R. Lynn Rardin)
Subject: Re: tour dates
>July 7 Northampton, MA Pearl Street
No Boston date this time around?! Bummer. :(
-Lynn
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 12:46:04 -0700
From: edju@chaph.usc.edu (Edward Ju)
Subject: Road Game credits/Substandard beer
>From: Bill=Purcell%TS=SysCall%CS=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
>Subject: Road Games credits/Substandard beer
>
>On the back of my Road Games LP, Allan offers the following:
>
>"This album is dedicated to two truly great musicians and special friends,
>Pat Smythe and Robert Cornford." Any information on who these gentlemen are
>and what instruments they play? I don't recall ever seeing individual
>credits for either guy on any other albums or songs.
As was mentioned by someone else, there was a boot with a certain
"Pat Smith" on piano for one of Allan's gigs. However, could the "Pat Smythe"
be Patti Smythe the pop singer? When David Lee Roth left Van Halen, I believe
she was offered the lead vocals slot by Eddie himself, which she turned down
so Sammy Hagar ended up getting it instead. Since Eddie and Allan did get along
famously at one point, maybe there's the connection.
>Allan also thanks Edward Van Halen, Frank Zappa, and *Coors* !! After the
>initial shock of reading this name which is considered profane in more
>erudite circles of breweriana culture, I decided to write it off as a
>possible reflection of the financial situation AH faced at the time. After
>all, one of these days, I'll have to explain to my progeny that while
>attending college, the only malt beverage product I could afford was the
>occasional 6-pack of Schaefer Light! Oh, the humanity!
No. Coors didn't sponsor Allan in anyway, as far as I can remember.
However, I do remember Allan saying that the only American beer that's close
enough for his tastes was Coors - I probably read it from "Reaching for the
Uncommon Chord" or somewhere else. Having seen Allan perform on several
occasions, I also remember him downing a few Coors after a gig.
Eddie
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 07:48:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Mason
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 140
Hi,
As regards Ollie Halsall I have an obscure Kevin Ayers album called "Yes,
We Have No Manyanas" ( 1976, EMI/Harvest Records, SHSP 4057 ) which is
actually quite enjoyable - Ollie plays some nice pieces although the
record is primarily a song-oriented work.
A friend of mine says he used to see AH and Halsall playing/jamming in
tiny little English clubs in the early-to-mid seventies and, apparently,
it was a very scary experience - these two were both monsters, similarly
styled but amazingly unique even way back then.
As for Coors, my brother-in-law ( who probably knows better than me about
such things ) tells me that The Adolph Coors Company has a rather
questionable reputation for unethical employment practices - things like,
I'm told, job applications which enquire as to one's religious, ethnic
and sexual orientation.
Me, I just don't like that weasel-piss that they sell...
Bye For Now,
Paul
P.S. Holdsworth in Vancouver....now, that hasn't happened in quite some
time!!! How very civilised we're becoming way out here in the colonies...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 08:27:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Mason
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 140
Hi Again,
Two items I had meant to include in my last contribution ( Ollie
Halsall/Coors )....
I seem to recall that AH and Ollie Halsall were close friends and that
Holdsworth had a great deal of respect for the man as a musician.
I seem also to recall that, sadly, Ollie Halsall passed away a few years ago.
Bye Again,
Paul
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 8:38:23 PDT
From: Kyle Wohlmut
Subject: Substandard beer and homebrewing
WATCH OUT! Homebrewers, check the relevant laws governing the practice,
since of course it is VERY ILLEGAL to sell your homebrew, and in fact it is
even illegal to give it away, so please think twice before posting in a
public forum about your intentions to do so...
ObHoldsworth: As far as Coors, I know that Allan found Coors at least
drinkable at that time (Road Games), mainly because it wasn't pasteurized, so
did have some kind of flavor (even if not a very good one). But I can't
imagine he liked it THAT much, and at that time there were any number of
imports available here, as well as a few micros, so I think Coors must have
done something special to be mentioned on the album jacket-- anyone know?
/^\^/^\^/^\^ http://www-csli.stanford.edu/users/kyle/ ^\^/^\^/^\^/^\
Kyle Wohlmut -- The 4.15 Stanford Executive -- Heute brau ich, morgen
back ich, und uebermorgen hol ich mir der Koenigin ihr Kind. Ach, wie
gut dass niemand weiss das ich kyle@csli.stanford.edu heiss --
\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/^\^/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 11:15:18 -0500
From: uchima@fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Subject: Gongzilla; Coors
Got e-mail from LOLO Records yesterday, indicating that the Gongzilla CD is
*finally* in! (It figures; I just tried to order one -- among other things --
a few days ago from CD Connection; CDC told me it was "out of stock".) FYI,
here's the ordering info I just received:
> From: BONLO@PAN.COM
>
> The following are available by sending $15.00 to: LOLO RECORDS P.O. Box 122
> Riverton, N.J. 08077 or fax 609-829-8421 or e-mail.
>
> GONGZILLA-"Suffer" GONG members Bon, Hansford Rowe, Benoit Moerlen, and
> Allan Holdsworth strike terror into the heart of fusion.
> Special guests include Bobby Thomas (Weather Report), Ben
> Perowsky (Lost Tribe).
>
> [...snip...]
>
> Mail for free catalog of other and upcoming releases.
Changing the subject, Paul Mason wrote:
> As for Coors, my brother-in-law ( who probably knows better than me about
> such things ) tells me that The Adolph Coors Company has a rather
> questionable reputation for unethical employment practices - things like,
> I'm told, job applications which enquire as to one's religious, ethnic
> and sexual orientation.
Doesn't surprise me. As I recall, they were one of the corporate sponsors of
the PMRC back in the '80s. I found the connection particularly irksome at the
time, since on the one hand they were objecting to sexual references in music,
while on the other they were using sex to sell beer (this was when they had
their huge ad campaign featuring Elvira.) Pffft!
Speaking of beer, someone just mentioned Sierra Nevada again; jeez, this is
making me thirsty. The local supermarket actually started carrying Sierra
Nevada recently, much to my surprise. This is probably a mixed blessing,
since they tend to leave stuff sit on the shelf too long; hey, maybe I need to
help them rotate their stock! :)
-- Mike Uchima
-- uchima@fnal.fnal.gov
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: The Allan Holdsworth Harness
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 09:22:08 -0700 (PDT)
I saw the ad for the Harness in the latest Guitar Player. $399 plus
shipping and handling, with inquiries directed to Guitars West,
a store in San Marcos owned by a buddy of his. According to the
ad is is NOT a speaker simulator or power attenuator. What it does
is take the signal from your amp head/guitar power amp and convert it
to a line level signal for processing or whatever. I guess the idea is
to capture the sound of the power tubes, not just the preamp tubes.
I just thought it was pretty neat to see Allan's ad in a big magazine
like Guitar Player. I wish him the best in his new enterprise; may
he sell enough Harnesses to build his Brewery!
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
----------------------------------------------------------------- |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ |
\ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 95 12:47:11 EDT
From: jveatc01@eng.eds.com (Jef Veatch)
Subject: Coors
: As for Coors, my brother-in-law ( who probably knows better than me about
: such things ) tells me that The Adolph Coors Company has a rather
: questionable reputation for unethical employment practices - things like,
: I'm told, job applications which enquire as to one's religious, ethnic
: and sexual orientation.
:
My understanding is that this is purely rumor. Coors is, however,
anti-union. (which might explain the source of the rumors...)
Regardless of their employment practices, it's still nasty brew. Anyone
ever try Creemor Springs (sp?) from upper Canada? Good stuff.
In order to avoid an AH vacant message... what does Allan drink?
Peace.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"My cerebellum just fused..." - Calvin
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
_ /|
Jef Veatch \'o.O'
=(___)=
jveatc01@eng.eds.com U
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 14:09:53 -0400
From: David Palmer
Subject: 1st posting
Hi, all! This is my first posting to this group. I was curious to know what
people were saying about AH.
My first exposure to Allan's playing was some time in the late 70's - Soft
Machine, Million Dollar Legs, or Enigmatic Ocean - I can't remember. I remem-
ber thinking (please don't flame me) that I didn't like his hyper-legato way
of playing: it seemed to be rhythmically imprecise and blurred the pitches.
Moreover, his run-on style lacked phrasing. However, once I heard him in UK
(I know he hated playing in that band) and Bruford, I became a staunch advocate
of all things Holdsworth. In fact, during the 80's, he was one of the few
people I knew about who was doing interesting stuff with rock music. (I guess
there were a couple of fusoids like Chick Corea and John Scofield.) Which leads
me to my first question: at the end of cut 1 on Wardenclyffe Tower, the band's
apparent response to the listener's question is "jazz." Does Allan now regard
himself as primarily a jazz musician? I remember reading that he took a lot of
inspiration from Charlie Parker.
The one time I saw AH was in the fall of 92. I was curious about the set list:
about half of it was drawn from IOU and Road Games. The emphasis seemed to be
on tunes whose ambiguous, mid-tempo, Holdsworth grooves lent themselves to a
jazz-like rhythmic freedom. Do you think this was the intent? I also wondered
if he was trying to familiarize his band and his audience with an earlier s
segment of his repertoire.
What is Allan doing now? I read a posting about a standards album.
I still haven't heard Hard Hat Area. How would you rate it?
Finally, what does "atavachron" refer to? I notice on the album that Allan is
wearing Star Trek garb. Is he a Trekkie?
Cheers,
David Palmer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 13:47:24 -0700
From: dmick@pongo73.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Subject: Re: The Allan Holdsworth Harness
> According to the
> ad is is NOT a speaker simulator or power attenuator. What it does
> is take the signal from your amp head/guitar power amp and convert it
> to a line level signal for processing or whatever. I guess the idea is
> to capture the sound of the power tubes, not just the preamp tubes.
Uh...that's what a power attenuator *is*.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 18:04:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: What's the difference? Harness vs. The Other Leading Brand
> From: Dan Mick
> Subject: Re: The Allan Holdsworth Harness
> > According to the
> > ad is is NOT a speaker simulator or power attenuator. What it does
> > is take the signal from your amp head/guitar power amp and convert it
> > to a line level signal for processing or whatever. I guess the idea is
> > to capture the sound of the power tubes, not just the preamp tubes.
> Uh...that's what a power attenuator *is*.
I was a bit confused here, too... but not being into "the gear thing"
for many, many years, I was not certain how to differentiate the two.
So, in the course of making an HTML advertisement for the Harness (as
yet unfinished, and NOT to be hosted on the current server, btw), I
asked Claire and Allan point blank, "What IS it? It's easier to sell
something by explaining what it IS, rather than what it ISN'T," but
going from what Claire had to say when she sent the tour dates, they
never received the proposed HTML text. So, I will resend that tonight;
perhaps I will have a Claire-ification shortly. ;)
My guess was that a true power attenuator is designed to go between an
amp's output and a speaker cabinet, whereas the Harness is designed to
deliver line-level signal as opposed to speaker-level signal. But that
is just a guess!
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/home.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: What's the difference? Harness vs. The Other Leading Brand
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 1995 15:42:27 -0700 (PDT)
> My guess was that a true power attenuator is designed to go between an
> amp's output and a speaker cabinet, whereas the Harness is designed to
> deliver line-level signal as opposed to speaker-level signal. But that
> is just a guess!
>
> Jeff
I think you may be right Jeff. This is what the Juice Extractor did
too except it had the speaker simulator. With the Harness you will
need a power amp if you intend to drive speaker cabinets (want speaker
simulation? Mike the cabinets! :)).
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
----------------------------------------------------------------- |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ |
\ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 95 12:30:01 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Top Secret! World's Cheapest Power Attenuator
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
I offer this semi-facetiously: I used to have a Bassman head that I dearly
loved. It had no master volume so it wouldn't "sing" unless it was turned up.
One day I was lamenting the fact that it was either too loud or too lame when
I thought, hey, there's two 6L6s in there ... figuring it as a pawnshop prize
(cheap enough to replace if I blew it up) and also that tube amps can stand a
lot of abuse ... I pulled one of the tubes out and cranked it up. It actually
worked - lots of crunch, less volume. I chickened out after about half an
hour, thinking, did I really want to blow up the amp and burn down my parent's
house?
It seems like people are looking for power tube distortion more and more.
Personally I find 6L6s are really "edgey" when they distort. I much prefer the
sound of a glowing 12AX7 instead. I wonder if the world needs another power
attenuator? Perhaps we get bored and need to buy something new to get back
into things? I know I do this all the time. It's gotten so bad the last year
that I've decided I'm going to have to make up a toy budget.
I hope AH isn't betting the farm on the Harness. I think the music instrument
hardware market is way smaller than the commercial music industry. If AH is
struggling as a musician I don't imagine his struggles will lessen as an
independent equipment manufacturer. It seems like most jazz guys end up
teaching in their middle years, as they tire of the tour grind. Has there ever
been any discussion of AH as a teacher? Keith Jarrett used to offer small
teaching sessions at his farm - apparently they were earth shattering for most
participants. I'd travel down to San Diego (right location?) for a week at the
brewery as a holiday. In fact, I'd pay more for that than a Harness ...
Thoughts?
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation
V: 604.389.3503 F:360.7285
CPMANUEL@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
========= End of Atavachron Digest ========= I
\ :::: ]I[ :::: /
Administrative requests to: : ::::::: ]] [[ ::::::: :
listserv@msuacad.morehead-st.edu ::: ]] [[ :::
''::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::''
Postings to: ::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
atavachron@msuacad.morehead-st.edu ::: =a=t=a=v=a=c=h=r=o=n= :::
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
For more info, send HELP as the first ,,::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::,,
line in e-mail to the listserv above. ::: ]] [[ :::
: :::::: ]] . [[ :::::: :
All opinions expressed herein are / :: ] ::: [ :: \
those of the individual contributors. I I
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Japan, Australia and more are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 142
Thursday, 13 April 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Re: Top Secret! World's Cheapest Power Attenuator
More Harness Thoughts
(none)
Allan's Melbourne appearances...
AH
Re: AH10
Re: AH
Atavachron
Holdsworthian moments
Re: More Harness Thoughts
Re: The Allan Holdsworth Harness
Re: The Allan Holdsworth Harness
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: Top Secret! World's Cheapest Power Attenuator
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 13:05:55 -0700 (PDT)
> I offer this semi-facetiously: I used to have a Bassman head that I dearly
> loved. It had no master volume so it wouldn't "sing" unless it was turned up.
> One day I was lamenting the fact that it was either too loud or too lame when
> I thought, hey, there's two 6L6s in there ... figuring it as a pawnshop prize
> (cheap enough to replace if I blew it up) and also that tube amps can stand a
> lot of abuse ... I pulled one of the tubes out and cranked it up. It actually
> worked - lots of crunch, less volume. I chickened out after about half an
> hour, thinking, did I really want to blow up the amp and burn down my parent's
> house?
>
> It seems like people are looking for power tube distortion more and more.
> Personally I find 6L6s are really "edgey" when they distort. I much prefer the
> sound of a glowing 12AX7 instead. I wonder if the world needs another power
> attenuator?
Allan's ad in Guitar Player clearly states: "NOT a speaker simulator
or power attenuator". As you are all aware, tube preamps have been
available for some time. However, Allan has felt that the sound of
preamp tubes by themselves is too thin. He feels that a proper
overdrive comes from both preamp and power amp tubes working together.
Thus he came up with the idea of using an entire amp head as a
super-preamp for overdriven sounds.
This is what the Harness does; it transforms any tube amp head into
a preamp. The Juice Extractor received the output signal from the
speaker outs of the head and converted it to six line-level signals.
I imagine the Harness does something very simiilar. What you do
with the line level signals is up to you; the typical approach
being to send some through various effects while keeping at least
one signal dry and then sending them all to a mixer before patching
the mix into a PA or another power amp driving cabinets.
So for example you could use your Bassman head as a preamp, turning
it up to get the distortion you want and controlling the final
volume from your mixer/PA/whatever so as not to annoy the neighbors.
Note the the volume control is accomplished at the mixer/PA/power amp,
NOT at the Harness.
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
----------------------------------------------------------------- |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ |
\ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 95 16:06:12 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: More Harness Thoughts
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
I'm still having some difficulty understanding the difference between the
Harness and a power attenuator. Paolo has pretty clearly stated that the
Harness is a means to using a tube amp as a "super pre-amp", employing
multiple gain stages including both pre-amp and power-amp tubes. He goes on to
say that the output, at line level, from the Harness can be used to drive an
effects bus, external power amp and cabinet, recording console or PA.
My question is: how does this differ from the line out on my Boogie? According
to MESA's specs the line out is tapped after the output tubes and padded to
line level. I've run that into my mixer, and boy, it sounds like breaking
glass, the worst fuzztone in the world! Obviously guitar cabinets are _really_
low fi, smoothing the top end enormously; Chip McDonald mentioned that he
figured everything above 6kHz is gone once the signal hits the speaker in a
guitar amp. I'd certainly agree. If you pass a "super pre-amped" signal via
the Harness to a PA, you'd expect it to be really hot in the high frequencies
- too hot to use unless you're into death metal. Since AH uses such a soft
overdriven tone nowadays, I've got to think something else is going on in the
Harness. Although there is no mention of speaker emulation, or loading, there
must be _some_ tone sculpting going on - unless AH's intent is to do tone
sculpting on the Harness's output, pass it back to a guitar amp (external
power amp and cabinet) and then mic the cabinet for the PA or recording. There
could be some advantages in going this route as the guitar speaker cabinet
might function like a big Dolby circuit, attenuating all the hiss introduced
in the effects chain. :-)
I'm intrigued that AH found the Harness such a worthwhile endeavour that he's
doing it himself. There must be something there that I don't understand yet.
(Or is he just bored ... ?)
Paolo, do you want to take another shot at enlightening me?
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation
V: 604.389.3503 F:360.7285
CPMANUEL@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 09:17:21 +1000
From: Michael Ibrahim
[Moderator's note: Reformatted to less than 80 chars/line. --JP]
> me to my first question: at the end of cut 1 on Wardenclyffe Tower, the
> band's apparent response to the listener's question is "jazz." Does Allan
> now regard himself as primarily a jazz musician? I remember reading that he
> took a lot of inspiration from Charlie Parker.
You bet your life AH is a jazz musician. I found that people in general
(including myself) let the tone or the texture of an instrument get in the
way of the guts of music, THE HARMONY. I once played a friend of mine the
solo from 'Peril premonition' off Secrets. I asked her what type of music
she though it was. To my suprise, she said that she thought it was metal
because the guitar was distorted and he was playing fast!
What Allan does is jazz through and through. A well established bebop
guitarist down here in Australia by the name of Dave Smith saw Allan the
last time he was here in Sydney. Dave actually walked out of the gig because
the music was just too much. Dave used to live in England in the early 70's.
One time he actually sold his guitar so he could go see Allan play.
Just ask Dave, what AH does is jazz. It's just presented in a unique way.
Miko.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Duncan Chung Wing Mok
Subject: Allan's Melbourne appearances...
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 14:06:54 +1000 (EST)
Hi all,
Just thought I'd correct Jeff's itinery for the Melbourne dates on May 16-17.
The venue should be "The Grainstore".
By the way, I really like this place. It's a converted bluestone grainstore
(surprise!!) with wooden floors, and exposed beams. Great atmosphere when a
good crowds gathers. It has two rooms - upstairs is quite large, and has a
central 'island' bar. The stage is quite wide, and when I was last there, the
house PA was really quite nice. Two big subwoofers across the front of the
stage, and a flown mid/horn system. MUCH better than at the Central Club, or
was it the Corner Hotel, where he played last time... icchhh!!
Anyways, gotta go,
Dunk (still hoping for RoadGames on CD)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Duncan CW Mok Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology University
B.Eng (Computer Systems Engineering) B.App.Sci (Computer Science)
_-_|\
/ \ 8 Maitland Avenue Telephone: (+613) 817 1395
\_.-._/ East Kew VIC 3102 Facsimile: (+613) 817 4659
v AUSTRALIA email: s914398@yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au
I work for Data-Tech Systems, but I don't speak for them...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 02:10:22 -0400
From: RJuster@aol.com
Subject: AH
I've always suspected that Allan was/is too much of a perfectionist but,
after reading that the harmonizer on his solo on Chad's album was added after
his performance--and not by him--I can see why he gets so pissed.
Speaking of pissed, I gather that Adolph Coors' political persuasion is
somewhat to the right of Pat Buchanan for what its worth.
BTW I found an Ibanez catalog showing the AH10. I don't see it in the
pricelist; was it actually produced? --Randy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: DVH
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 12:47:12 GMT0BST
Subject: Re: AH10
> BTW I found an Ibanez catalog showing the AH10. I don't see it in the
> pricelist; was it actually produced? --Randy
Yes.. It was produced for about a year ! I have a green one (they
also came in red). Check the Atavachron archives about 6 months back
for posts on this subject and also my homepage for a photo of the
beastie.
Dave Valentine-Hagart
IT Support Assistant
WEB: http://unicorn.nott.ac.uk/~cczdvh/DVH.html
David Valentine-Hagart
IT Support Assistant
Email: David.Valentine-Hagart@nottingham.ac.uk
WWW: http://unicorn.nott.ac.uk/~cczdvh/DVH.html
Cripps Computing Centre
University of Nottingham
University Park Tel: 0115 951 3339
Nottingham
NG7 2RD Fax: 0115 951 3358
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 95 09:27:32 EDT
From: "Bob Lynch"
Subject: Re: AH
I have an AH-10 that I've had for about 6 years. I customized the @#$% out
of it, so I couldn't say it's the same guitar that Allan designed. I have a
bunch pf parts from it, including the original pickup, if anyone is interested.
--Bob
>I've always suspected that Allan was/is too much of a perfectionist but,
>after reading that the harmonizer on his solo on Chad's album was added after
>his performance--and not by him--I can see why he gets so pissed.
>
>Speaking of pissed, I gather that Adolph Coors' political persuasion is
>somewhat to the right of Pat Buchanan for what its worth.
>
>BTW I found an Ibanez catalog showing the AH10. I don't see it in the
>pricelist; was it actually produced? --Randy
>
_____________________________________________________________________________
Bob Lynch
GES (JvNCnet)
3 Independence Way, Princeton, NJ 08540
Voice: 609-897-7335 Fax: 609-897-7310
Pager: 800-790-5879
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 12:33:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ashley Collins
Subject: Atavachron
> Finally, what does "atavachron" refer to? I notice on the album that Allan is
> wearing Star Trek garb. Is he a Trekkie?
>
> Cheers,
>
> David Palmer
There's an episode of the Original Series entitled "All Our Yesterdays"
(the last song on the album) where Kirk, Spock, and McCoy travel back into
a planet's past via a device called the Atavachron. One of the people
they meet in the past is a woman named Zarabeth (a song on Secrets or
Wardenclyffe Tower, I don't remember which). Judging from this I think
it's safe to assume that AH is a pretty devout Trekkie (or at least a huge
fan of this particular episode).
Ashley Collins
acollins@CapAccess.org
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stanton@mercedes-benz.com
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 07:49:05 -0400
Subject: Holdsworthian moments
It's great to be able to share my enthusiam of Allan with people that
understand, and quite frankly, just have heard of him! :)
When I periodically try to solicit fellow musicians to become Holdsworth
disciples, I try and choose a track or two to play for them to get across
what he is about. Has anyone else noticed that the 4:15 Bradford Executive
solo (Sand album) is one of Allan's most expressive, soulful and emotional
offerings? It's one of my personal favorites.
He has so many brilliant little passages too, such as in Pud Wud, when the
solo builds up in fury and then so smoothly flows into the beautiful
keyboard of Alan Pasqua.
Glad to hear of Allan's touring plans; I can't wait to see him again.
Got to shake his masterful hand last year at the Bottom Line in NYC while
he was hanging around at the bar savoring a brew. Unbelievable.
Mike Stanton
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: More Harness Thoughts
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 15:58:06 -0700 (PDT)
> I'm still having some difficulty understanding the difference between the
> Harness and a power attenuator. Paolo has pretty clearly stated that the
> Harness is a means to using a tube amp as a "super pre-amp", employing
> multiple gain stages including both pre-amp and power-amp tubes. He goes on to
> say that the output, at line level, from the Harness can be used to drive an
> effects bus, external power amp and cabinet, recording console or PA.
>
> My question is: how does this differ from the line out on my Boogie? According
> to MESA's specs the line out is tapped after the output tubes and padded to
> line level. I've run that into my mixer, and boy, it sounds like breaking
> glass, the worst fuzztone in the world! Obviously guitar cabinets are _really_
> low fi, smoothing the top end enormously; Chip McDonald mentioned that he
> figured everything above 6kHz is gone once the signal hits the speaker in a
> guitar amp. I'd certainly agree. If you pass a "super pre-amped" signal via
> the Harness to a PA, you'd expect it to be really hot in the high frequencies
The signal that comes out of the Harness is your standard line-level
(0 db or something like that) signal. This is NOT the same signal level
as what you see coming out of the speaker outs of an amp. The Harness
does load down the signal coming out of the speaker outs via a
passive resistive load of Allan's design. Allan told us at the Guitars
West clinic it is not a speaker simulator; just a load. For speaker
simulation you just run the line-level signal coming out of the Harness
into a power amp w/speakers and you mike the speakers ;). Or you can
hook up a Hughes & Kettner Red Box or two. I suspect the line out from
your Boogie sounds like that because of lack of speaker simulation.
How your line-out differs from the Harness exactly I'm not sure except
Allan's design is probably better sounding and likely has multiple
outputs like its predecessor, the Juice Extractor. After all, if Allan
liked the sound of the Boogie's line out, he'd be using it too! :)
> I'm intrigued that AH found the Harness such a worthwhile endeavour that he's
> doing it himself. There must be something there that I don't understand yet.
> (Or is he just bored ... ?)
First of all, the original Harness was known as the Allan Holdsworth
Juice Extractor which was marketed and distributed by Rocktron. Allan
said Rocktron took his original design and f@#ked it up. He went on
to berate Rocktron products as being unreliable for road use and
begged us not to buy the Rocktron Allan holdsworth Juice Extractor
and to tell all our friends too. That's when he offered to make
something like it himself, but with his own design, not Rocktron's
bastardized design. So I'm speculating he wants to clear his name
of the Rocktron fiasco and make a little extra money so he could build
his Brewery :).
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
----------------------------------------------------------------- |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ |
\ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: The Allan Holdsworth Harness
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 16:13:47 -0700 (PDT)
> > According to the
> > ad is is NOT a speaker simulator or power attenuator. What it does
> > is take the signal from your amp head/guitar power amp and convert it
> > to a line level signal for processing or whatever. I guess the idea is
> > to capture the sound of the power tubes, not just the preamp tubes.
>
> Uh...that's what a power attenuator *is*.
The Harness is not a power attenuator because the attenuation
happens at the mixer/power amp/etc not the Harness itself.
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
----------------------------------------------------------------- |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ |
\ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 95 19:01:23 -0500
From: uchima@fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Subject: Re: The Allan Holdsworth Harness
pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid) said (in 2 different posts):
> [...]
> The signal that comes out of the Harness is your standard line-level
> (0 db or something like that) signal. This is NOT the same signal level
> as what you see coming out of the speaker outs of an amp.
> [...]
> [...]
> The Harness is not a power attenuator because the attenuation
> happens at the mixer/power amp/etc not the Harness itself.
> [...]
Now I'm *really* confused. On the one hand, the Harness cuts the level of the
speaker outputs to line level. But on the other hand, the attenuation is done
at the mixer/power amp? This appears -- at least on the surface -- to be
contradictory. What am I missing?
-- Mike Uchima
-- uchima@fnal.fnal.gov
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I ========= End of Atavachron Digest =========
\ :::: ]I[ :::: /
: ::::::: ]] [[ ::::::: : Administrative requests to:
::: ]] [[ ::: listserv@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
''::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::''
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ ::: Postings to:
::: =a=t=a=v=a=c=h=r=o=n= ::: atavachron@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
,,::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::,, For more info, send HELP as first
::: ]] [[ ::: line in e-mail to the listserv above.
: :::::: ]] . [[ :::::: :
/ :: ] ::: [ :: \ All opinions expressed herein are
I I those of the individual contributors.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Japan, Australia and more are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 143
Tuesday, 18 April 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Melbourne Venue
Harnessin' the Extracted Cord
Speaker Simulation
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 142
Power Attenuator
Re: The Allan Holdsworth Harness
Re: The Allan Holdsworth Harness
an old gem
Re: an old gem
Boogie Line Outs and More
Two Holdsworthy Finds
Speaker Simulation
No Subject
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gerrard@vivaldi.denver.co.us (Gerrard Hocks)
Subject: Melbourne Venue
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 22:12:08 -0600 (CST)
> From: Duncan Chung Wing Mok
> Subject: Allan's Melbourne appearances...
> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 14:06:54 +1000 (EST)
>
> Hi all,
>
> Just thought I'd correct Jeff's itinery for the Melbourne dates on May 16-17.
> The venue should be "The Grainstore".
>
> By the way, I really like this place. It's a converted bluestone grainstore
> (surprise!!) with wooden floors, and exposed beams. Great atmosphere when a
> good crowds gathers. It has two rooms - upstairs is quite large, and has a
> central 'island' bar. The stage is quite wide, and when I was last there, the
> house PA was really quite nice. Two big subwoofers across the front of the
> stage, and a flown mid/horn system. MUCH better than at the Central Club, or
> was it the Corner Hotel, where he played last time... icchhh!!
Can't agree more. That horrid cave like thing on Swan street, Richmond. Urgh.
The Grainstore is a much better place for such a show. Shame I'm stuck in
Colorado for this year... Anybody know if AH will visit humble old Denver ?
Gerrard.
(British born and raised Australian living in the US missing Oz)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gerrard Hocks phone: 303 347 2195
fax: 303 347 2385
Common Sense Computing
(North America) Ltd email: gerrard@comsense.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: efreedm@hzscg01.att.com
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 95 11:03:15 +0200
Subject: Harnessin' the Extracted Cord
Multiple outs:
> Allan's design is probably better sounding and likely has multiple
> outputs like its predecessor, the Juice Extractor. After all, if Allan
This feature is great especially if you like to run your signal processing
in parallel. Guitarists who are into this might also want to note an
extremely useful, inexpensive, but sadly not-made-anymore unit, the Akai MB76,
a 7in/6out mix bay w/ MIDI program change control.
> First of all, the original Harness was known as the Allan Holdsworth
> Juice Extractor which was marketed and distributed by Rocktron. Allan
On my way out of a music store in Basel, Switzerland, I caught Allan's
face staring out at me from a piece of promotional literature. I lept
to the stand and found a pile of posters from the Secrets era featuring
Allan w/ white Steinberger, said Juice Harnessiore, and a Boogie head &
bottom.
It's funny, in addition to the Rocktron, MesaBoogie, & Steinberger
logos on the poster is there the logo from United Airlines!
I wranged about 10 of these really cool posters from the store owner and
would like to donate them to Atavachron. Maybe we could give these away
through another contest?
Elliot Freedman (E.Freedman@att.com)
Regentesselaan 160 I
2562 EG The Hague
The Netherlands
+31 70 3656263
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 95 08:16:02 est
From: "GBEST01"
Subject: Speaker Simulation
Regardless of what a Harness is or isn't, what are some recommended
configurations for speaker simulation? Tube pre-amps add some non-linear
color (a good thing), but are still lacking some character. I know that
one of the answers is "Use a speaker", but I'm really interested in
finding out what non-speaker configurations people have used and like or
dislike. Personnally, I'm not trying to emulate Allan's tone, I use some
old guitars and I'm trying to get their character on tape without waking
the kids or neighbors.
Thanks,
George Best
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 95 09:54:29 CDT
From: wtwhiteh@prairienet.org (William T. Whitehouse)
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 142
>> Finally, what does "atavachron" refer to? I notice on the album that Allan
is
>> wearing Star Trek garb. Is he a Trekkie?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> David Palmer
I asked him the latter question between sets at a gig in Hollywood during
the Atavachron tour and he answered, with a _big_ smile, "Yes - it's a great
inspiration." Totally broke up Chad Wackerman, who was walking with him
back to the stage.
Btw, I was floored at the complete lack of "I'm a guitar god" attitude
from Allan, particularly when compared to what I perceived as a _heavy_
"Bask in my light ... I'm a bass god" attitude from Jimmy Johnson. Probably
old news to most of you, but I was very pleasantly surprised.
--
Bill Whitehouse wtwhiteh@prairienet.org
"Don't fear mistakes. There are none." - Miles Davis
Bad cop - No doughnut
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 11:02:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark_Oswald@transarc.com
Subject: Power Attenuator
I recently unpacked a box that contained some music gear that I hadn't
seen in quite some time. This included an Altair Power Attenuator
(model PW-5). It connects between the output of a power amp and your
speakers (speakers are optional). The device has speaker outputs
and a line output, both of which allow you to adjust the level. I
must be a little slow, because I still don't see how this differs from
the Harness. I do remember that this device dissipated the excess
"load" as heat. Is this how the Harness works?
FWIW: Since I am no longer seeking that sound and switched to a solid
state amp (JC-120) years ago, I wouldn't mind parting with the Power
Attenuator for a reasonable offer. Please send e-mail if you're
interested.
- Mark
--------------------------------------
Mark Oswald (412) 338-6769
Transarc Corporation
oswald@transarc.com
--------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: The Allan Holdsworth Harness
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 10:51:53 -0700 (PDT)
>
> pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid) said (in 2 different posts):
> > [...]
> > The signal that comes out of the Harness is your standard line-level
> > (0 db or something like that) signal. This is NOT the same signal level
> > as what you see coming out of the speaker outs of an amp.
> > [...]
>
> > [...]
> > The Harness is not a power attenuator because the attenuation
> > happens at the mixer/power amp/etc not the Harness itself.
> > [...]
>
> Now I'm *really* confused. On the one hand, the Harness cuts the level of the
> speaker outputs to line level. But on the other hand, the attenuation is done
> at the mixer/power amp? This appears -- at least on the surface -- to be
> contradictory. What am I missing?
>
> -- Mike Uchima
> -- uchima@fnal.fnal.gov
I am terribly sorry the confusion I seem to be spreading. Yes
the Harness cuts the level of the speaker output signal down
to line level. As for my second quoted statement, I chose the
wrong word - "attenuation". I just wanted to point out that
the overall volume control happens at the mixer/power amp.
Just like how I can't control the volume level of the signal
coming out of my CD player's line out to my stereo amp system.
Maybe we should just wait for Jeff's Claire-ification. :)
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
----------------------------------------------------------------- |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ |
\ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 14:58:09 -0700
From: dmick@pongo73.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Subject: Re: The Allan Holdsworth Harness
> From server@msuacad.morehead-st.edu Fri Apr 14 12:44:19 1995
> X-Delivered: at request of dmick on pongo
> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 15:38:39 -0400
> Comment: The Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
> Originator: atavachron@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
> Version: 5.31 -- Copyright (c) 1991, Anastasios Kotsikonas
> From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Re: The Allan Holdsworth Harness
>
> >
> > pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid) said (in 2 different posts):
> > > [...]
> > > The signal that comes out of the Harness is your standard line-level
> > > (0 db or something like that) signal. This is NOT the same signal level
> > > as what you see coming out of the speaker outs of an amp.
> > > [...]
> >
> > > [...]
> > > The Harness is not a power attenuator because the attenuation
> > > happens at the mixer/power amp/etc not the Harness itself.
> > > [...]
> >
> > Now I'm *really* confused. On the one hand, the Harness cuts the level of
the
> > speaker outputs to line level. But on the other hand, the attenuation is
done
> > at the mixer/power amp? This appears -- at least on the surface -- to be
> > contradictory. What am I missing?
> >
> > -- Mike Uchima
> > -- uchima@fnal.fnal.gov
>
> I am terribly sorry the confusion I seem to be spreading. Yes
> the Harness cuts the level of the speaker output signal down
> to line level. As for my second quoted statement, I chose the
> wrong word - "attenuation". I just wanted to point out that
> the overall volume control happens at the mixer/power amp.
> Just like how I can't control the volume level of the signal
> coming out of my CD player's line out to my stereo amp system.
Ah, so what you mean is "it's not a *variable* attenuator".
>
> Maybe we should just wait for Jeff's Claire-ification. :)
>
> --
> Paolo Valladolid
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\
> |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
> ----------------------------------------------------------------- |
> \ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ |
> \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \|
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 95 21:58:47 EDT
From: "Bob Lynch"
Subject: an old gem
Guess what I just found in a box on my garage; a pristine copy of the March
1990 Guitar Player featuring none other than AH on the cover. The article is
a play-by-play of the Secrets disc, and there is a transcription of "Joshua"
included. Some nice pics with the white Steinberger and one with a black
three pickup Steiny. The best picture is a Mesa Boogie full page ad on page
121. No text at all, just Allan sitting on a rack containing a Midi Matrix,
Quad Preamp, and a Stereo Simul-Class 295 amp. There are two Boogie 1 x 12
cabs on the side. Allan's pointing at the camera.
Jeff, could we use these for the web page? They would make a great addition
to the other pictures.
--Bob
_____________________________________________________________________________
Bob Lynch
GES (JvNCnet)
3 Independence Way, Princeton, NJ 08540
Voice: 609-897-7335 Fax: 609-897-7310
Pager: 800-790-5879
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 22:32:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Re: an old gem
> From: Bob Lynch
> Subject: an old gem
> Jeff, could we use these for the web page? They would make a great addition
> to the other pictures.
Sure; we can always use more pictures. One new subscriber has sent ten
thusfar, and says he has more (thanks, Jeff!).
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/home.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "ToddM"
Date: 17 Apr 1995 17:00:44CST6CDT
Subject: Boogie Line Outs and More
[Moderator's note: re-formatted to less than 80 chars/line (sigh) --JP]
As an aside, Chris Manuel discusses the line-outs of his Mesa-Boogie as
sounding like: "breaking glass, the worst fuzztone in the world!" My studio
preamp has actual "recording out" jacks and the output from those jacks are
greatly improved over the standard line out jacks. In fact, I like the
sound from that so much I never use the line outs and simply use the record
outs, even for stage use. I guess I'm giving up one of my secrets, but it
provides a much fatter and warmer tone.
Back to Allan:
I've been listening to the past couple of albums over the last week and
noted that he's really had an ultra-sweet, singing resonant tone of late.
Is this coming from the Harness "harnessing" his boogie heads and then
through his effects rack? Is Allan still using his "coffin" (i.e. mic in
box-like chamber for decent control over the final recorded result?). Or,
is Allan going direct from the harness and using studio effects for any
reverb or delay? I like his sound a lot.
What are Allan's views on how an album should sound? I've noticed that a
lot of the production of the more recent albums has tended to have a nice
audio sheen, a far cry from the days of IOU (but I like that one, too, for
different reasons).
ToddM@laserm.lmt.com
Todd Madson - Associate Technician
LaserMaster Technical Support Services
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 19:06:50 -0400
From: jerfo@student.umass.edu
Subject: Two Holdsworthy Finds
In my recent travels, I have managed to secure a copy of Andrea Marcelli's
_Oneness_, as well as the very rare Holdsworth/Beck _The Things You See_. Allan
appears on two tracks on _Oneness_: "Moon" and "You Have to Wait". Though
the album itself is nothing really to write home about, Allan's performances
are certainly noteworthy, as usual; the baritone guitar shines on "Moon" (the
tone is absolutely gorgeous!), and Allan absolutely rips through the last few
minutes of "You...". (As a side note, Ralph Towner appears on this release,
though his performance was quite sub-par (for him) IMHO.)
As for _Things..._ all I can say is this: SHAME on Allan for not letting
it be included in the discography! This has to be one of the more refreshing
recordings that I've managed to stuble across in ages. Allan plays an acoustic
for the majority of the album, showing an interesting side to his playing that
isn't normally heard these days...although the lines are as legato and rapid
as ever. (I should note that Gordon Beck absolutely SHINES on this one as
well.) Holdsworth fans wil be interested to hear that he actually SINGS on
the track "At The Edge", which is really the first two verses from the IOU
version of "The Things You See..."; he sounds remarkably similar to Paul
Williams, in fact. In addition to this, one can hear traces (actually,
photocopies is a better description) of "Velvet Darkness" and "Shadows Of"
(from Gong's _Gazeuse_ album) in the track "Golden Lakes".
Overall, I have to give _The Things You See_ my highest recomendation,
despite Allan's apparent dislike of it for some reason or another. As for the
Marcelli release, it's okay...but nothing spectacular. It can probably be best
described as very good fuzak...
*Jerfo*
jerfo@student.umass.edu
NOTE: All of the opinions contained within are mine and mine alone. Any
contrasting reactions to the above works would be welcome and/or encouraged!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 10:28:02 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Speaker Simulation
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
*** Reply to note of 04/14/95 06:41
George Best asked: "What are people using for speaker simulation?"
I'm using a BOSS SE-70 multi-effects box. It has a speaker cabinet algorithm
that offers several variations (from a one - 12 combo to multiple stack
configurations). I'm pretty happy with the resulting tone, although it does
sound quite processed, even when running with no other effects. Sometimes I
run it in parallel with a mic on my Boogie and the speaker emulator on the
other channel - when panned hard left and right you do get a big spread - lots
of presence without having to crank eq and volume.
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation
V: 604.389.3503 F:360.7285
CPMANUEL@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 10:39:15 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: No Subject
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
*** Reply to note of 04/11/95 16:45
Miko wrote (awhile ago) in support of classifying AH's music as jazz. I've had
a few thoughts about this and finally felt compelled to write.
Personally, I think of AH's music as fusion, not jazz: jazz harmonies with a
rock rhythmic and timbral sensibility. I think any stylistic analysis of a
piece of music has to consider timbral choices, rhythmic elements, and
harmony. Miko suggests that "THE HARMONY" is the only area necessary when
classifying music. Certainly, Holdsworth uses a harmonic system that suggests
jazz - if that is your only point of analysis then I guess he plays jazz.
I would receive an argument from AH himself as Wardenclyffe Tower has a brief
spoken word interlude in which a beery patron of a club askes what kind of
music the guys are playing. The artist replies: "jazz".
Keep in mind, just because there was a lot of ugly fusion released in the
seventies, doesn't mean it isn't a viable musical art form.
Thoughts?
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation
V: 604.389.3503 F:360.7285
CPMANUEL@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
========= End of Atavachron Digest ========= I
\ :::: ]I[ :::: /
Administrative requests to: : ::::::: ]] [[ ::::::: :
listserv@msuacad.morehead-st.edu ::: ]] [[ :::
''::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::''
Postings to: ::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
atavachron@msuacad.morehead-st.edu ::: =a=t=a=v=a=c=h=r=o=n= :::
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
For more info, send HELP as the first ,,::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::,,
line in e-mail to the listserv above. ::: ]] [[ :::
: :::::: ]] . [[ :::::: :
All opinions expressed herein are / :: ] ::: [ :: \
those of the individual contributors. I I
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Japan, Australia and more are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 144
Wednesday, 19 April 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 143
Re: No Subject
Atavachron Digest Number 143 (fwd)
Fusion thoughts... and hello
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 143
Fusion thoughts... and hello
Re: No Subject
Re: Fusion thoughts... and hello
Re: fusion
Re: Re: Fusion thoughts
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 143
Listserv malfunction: forwarded post
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dozier@titan.iwu.edu (Bill Dozier)
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 143
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:56:32 -0600 (CDT)
> Btw, I was floored at the complete lack of "I'm a guitar god" attitude
> from Allan, particularly when compared to what I perceived as a _heavy_
> "Bask in my light ... I'm a bass god" attitude from Jimmy Johnson. Probably
> old news to most of you, but I was very pleasantly surprised.
I was also surprised at Allan's attitude (or, lack of one ;{>). I can't
agree about Jimmy (Flim) Johnson. I used to go see him in the Wayne Johnson
Trio quite often at a small club in LA and found all three guys to be very
approachable (as well as a great band!).
> Bill Whitehouse wtwhiteh@prairienet.org
another Bill
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:57:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Patrick M. McMillin"
Subject: Re: No Subject
> I would receive an argument from AH himself as Wardenclyffe Tower has a brief
> spoken word interlude in which a beery patron of a club askes what kind of
> music the guys are playing. The artist replies: "jazz".
>
The one refutation of the above is:how detailed an answer
would you give if a guy interrupted your session in a rude
tone, with a finely tempered toilet behind him saying, "HEY!
Whadda you guys playin'!!?!" (comedy intended)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|) Patrick M. McMillin
/ The University of Texas at Austin
/| patrick-mc@mail.utexas.edu
~~~~~~~ / |__ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
( (|_ ) Save the bandwidth...
\_|_/ Cut text!!!
J
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: dozier@titan.iwu.edu (Bill Dozier)
Subject: Atavachron Digest Number 143 (fwd)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:02:25 -0600 (CDT)
> Personally, I think of AH's music as fusion, not jazz: jazz harmonies with a
> rock rhythmic and timbral sensibility. I think any stylistic analysis of a
> piece of music has to consider timbral choices, rhythmic elements, and
> harmony. Miko suggests that "THE HARMONY" is the only area necessary when
> classifying music. Certainly, Holdsworth uses a harmonic system that suggests
> jazz - if that is your only point of analysis then I guess he plays jazz.
> Chris Manuel
I remember a comment from someone during the first "IOU" tour describing
AH's music as "heavy metal bebop." That always seemed to sum it up for me.
Bill
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: barryk@lhl.lib.mo.us (Ken Barry)
Subject: Fusion thoughts... and hello
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:23:33 -0600
Hi group --
This is my first posting here. I've been listening to this group for about
2 months, and to AH for 7 years. I'm a sax player but listen to guitarists,
which seems the other way 'round from the usual scenario. AH's melodic and
timbral sense is definitely one of my biggest influences and inspirations.
I also play WX7 wind controller with Yamaha VL1 synth (and lots of cool
guitar patches :) ).
About this fusion -vs- jazz thing:
>*** Reply to note of 04/11/95 16:45
>Miko wrote (awhile ago) in support of classifying AH's music as jazz. I've had
>a few thoughts about this and finally felt compelled to write.
>
>Personally, I think of AH's music as fusion, not jazz: jazz harmonies with a
>rock rhythmic and timbral sensibility. I think any stylistic analysis of a
>[...stuff deleted...]
>
>Thoughts?
>
>Chris Manuel
I think jazz is *itself* fusion, if you take fusion to mean the fusing of two
(or more) musical styles, in the sense that it was the product of African
rhythms and European harmony.
So, I think jazz can incorporate other elements like rock (or Latin or Indian)
rhythms, or timbres even, and still be classified as jazz, IMHO, as long as it
retains that certain element of improvisation or sponaneous generation or
something like that :P .
So, AH's music is therefore *jazz*, like the man on Wardenclyffe Tower says. :)
Other thoughts?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Barry barryk@lhl.lib.mo.us
Technical & Automated Services
Linda Hall Library
5109 Cherry St.
Kansas City, MO 64110
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:58:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jens Johansson
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 143
On Tue, 18 Apr 1995, Jeff Preston wrote:
> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 11:02:20 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Mark_Oswald@transarc.com
> Subject: Power Attenuator
>
> speakers (speakers are optional). The device has speaker outputs
> and a line output, both of which allow you to adjust the level. I
> must be a little slow, because I still don't see how this differs from
> the Harness. I do remember that this device dissipated the excess
> "load" as heat. Is this how the Harness works?
I've seen one but haven't heard one. As far as I can understand, the
"Harness" is a reactive heavy-duty load that (a) enables the output
(power) stage to distort properly, and apparently has a flat frequency
response, but also (b) has some other other ingenious non-linear features
and of coursee also (c) yields a line level at the output. It's definitely
_not_ just a big 10 ohm resistive load. :)
Jens. (http://www.panix.com/~jens/)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 14:20:15 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Fusion thoughts... and hello
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
*** Reply to note of 04/18/95 13:35
Good note from Ken Barry. I read it through and said to myself, "Hey, what was
I thinking, of course jazz is a fusion of other stylistic elements. How could
I be so dumb ..." Then I thought about it again - let me say that I should
have described AH's music as jazz/rock fusion. I think the fusion tag is too
generic.
Another participant described AH's music as "heavy metal be-bop". I think
that's getting even closer. Sorry for the un-credited reference.
I try to think of music descriptions and styles from the layman's standpoint.
If you played Kenny Burrel or Joe Pass to the average (sound of toilet
flushing in the background) person they would say "I hate jazz!". If you
played AH's "Metal Fatigue" for the same person they'd say, "What the heck is
that?" The average person wouldn't hear it as jazz. If it looks like a fish,
smells like a fish, and tastes like a fish, then it must be fusion ...
A completely unrelated thought: I was talking (on the telephone!, not
internet) to my brother in the East. He was enthusing about the internet and
I was saying how guilty I feel when I write on company time - he made me feel
really good by saying that it is the next century equivalent of staring out
the window, only better. If my boss complains I will answer: "OK, no more
internet stuff, but you've got to provide me with a window..." (My office is
windowless and has about 2,000,000,000,000,000,000 candlepower lights
overhead.)
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation
V: 604.389.3503 F:360.7285
CPMANUEL@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: No Subject
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:34:24 -0700 (PDT)
In defining jazz, Billy Taylor lists several attributes. From
what I recall, the two most important were:
1. Is associated with the "jazz tradition"
2. Has a "swing" feeling
#1 seems a bit vague. A lot of Allan's music does seem to satisfy
#2. Music that swings does not necessarly mean that it *has* to
follow an obvious rhythm like ting-ting-TA-ting-ting. "Swing feeling"
has more to do with being a little behind or ahead of the beat.
The various African music forms have swing feeling. Indian classical
music has "swing feeling". Filipino music (even the European-influenced
forms like the Filipino versions of the waltz) has "swing feeling".
In rock music people tend to play more on the beat rather than a little
ahead or a little behind; it's more regimented. In Allan's music the
beat is too elastic, especially when Gary Husband sits on the drum
throne, to be a rock beat. The main connection with rock comes
from the overdriven guitar sound.
As for fusion, it is a label generally attached to jazz-like
harmonies and solos grafted onto a rock or funk beat. This is
unnecessarily restrictive for a word whose literal meaning
implies a generic joining. In this light, jazz is itself a fusion (as
another reader noted) of African rhythms and melodic sensibilities
with European harmonic sensibilities. In the early days of fusion,
the label "fusion" seemed to have different implications than
it does today which is reflected in the music of the time. When
I listen to early Weather Report or Miles' In A Silent Way, I
get a sense of the excitement these musicians must have felt
at that time for the possibilities. Their music at that time
had a certain openness that gradually faded in the 70s with
the increasing simplification of the rhythms involved to the
point of being merely clockwork.
Yet today, there are musicians such as Allan who have remained
true to the original promise of "fusion"; the willingness to
pursue one's muse without thought to stylistic boundaries
or commercial concerns. Others include Lets Be Generous (with
guitarist Miroslav Tadic and former Lifetime bassist Tony Newton)
which combines the looseness of early Weather Report with the
intensity of Mahavishnu, David Torn, Steve Tibbetts, etc.
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\
|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
----------------------------------------------------------------- |
\ finger pvallado@waynesworld.ucsd.edu for more info \ |
\ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \|
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 20:17:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: X90LESAGE@wmich.edu
Subject: Re: Fusion thoughts... and hello
> I think jazz is *itself* fusion, if you take fusion to mean the fusing of two
> (or more) musical styles, in the sense that it was the product of African
> rhythms and European harmony.
>
I don't find this analysis useful. From this perspective, everything is
fusion. Any form of contemporary music probably could be
broken down (traced) to two or more "older" musical styles.
IMO, jazz and fusion are not synonomous terms. To draw an analogy,
jazz, rock, classical, etc. are like specialized areas of cerebral
cortex, while the various forms of fusion are like areas of association
cortex (allow communication between the specialized areas). Fusion
draws relationships between more specialized areas of music (realize
that by specialized I'm refering to a more narrow sonic scope, not
a differential in technical/compositional sophistication). My point
is that we need to draw lines somewhere. Doing so allows us to
talk more effectively about music, to describe it.
Best Regards,
Mark LeSage
Western Michigan University
x90lesage@wmich.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 22:16:23 -0400
From: rardin%orion.dnet@auriga (R. Lynn Rardin)
Subject: Re: fusion
>Another participant described AH's music as "heavy metal be-bop". I think
>that's getting even closer. Sorry for the un-credited reference.
Based on Allan's respect of Mike Brecker, he might get a kick out of this
description of his music. :)
-Lynn
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: barryk@lhl.lib.mo.us (Ken Barry)
Subject: Re: Re: Fusion thoughts
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 08:53:43 -0600
>
>> I think jazz is *itself* fusion, if you take fusion to mean the fusing of two
>> (or more) musical styles, in the sense that it was the product of African
>> rhythms and European harmony.
>>
> I don't find this analysis useful. From this perspective, everything is
> fusion. [...]
>
>Mark LeSage
>Western Michigan University
>x90lesage@wmich.edu
>
Yes, I realized the overgeneralization right after I sent the message. What I
meant is that "fusion" (jazz-rock fusion) is a subset of jazz, not a
different musical form.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ken Barry barryk@lhl.lib.mo.us
Technical & Automated Services
Linda Hall Library
5109 Cherry St.
Kansas City, MO 64110
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 07:03:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Mason
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 143
A comment regarding Chris Manuel's comments on "fusion"...
For what it's worth, I very much agree with Chris.
The "F" word has been applied to so much bilge over the years that it
really has become an insult but, nonetheless, if you go back to the
origin of the species and give a listen to the music which got the whole
thing started I think you'll find a wealth of extraordinary material.
My personal favourites are things like RTF's "Romantic Warrior", the
first few Mahavishnu Orchestra albums and similar works. There's a sense
of honesty in these albums which is often missing from later "band-wagon"
efforts from people like Coryell and his execerable "11th House" efforts.
RTF and Mahavishnu wrote, in my view, "songs", organic material not based
on gymnastics but from which, if there were to be any at all, the
gymnastics emmanated. Later on we were deluged with far too much music
based on technique rather than emotion, the kind of "look Ma I learned a
new scale/time signature" stuff which ultimately dragged the whole genre
into the sewer....all technique, no taste ( or even ideas at times ).
What Holdsworth does may or may not be classifiable as jazz or fusion but
it is, without question, honest, organic, emotionally based music, no
matter how dense or complicated it might seem.
Bye For Now,
Paul
p.s. My friend Elliot Freedman once used the term "mantra" to describe
Mahavishnu Orchestra's music....I quite like that....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 10:12:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Listserv malfunction: forwarded post
For whatever reason, the listserv software keeps rejecting or
ignoring this posting, so I'm forwarding it from my account in
hopes that a new mail header will set things straight! --JP
> From: richard@cam-ani.co.uk
> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 95 10:13:59 +0100
> Subject: Things You See
>
> I agree about the Holdsworth/Beck 'Things You See'. I got an
> autographed copy from Gordon Beck. (I used to watch Gordon in a
> sweaty little pub in Cambridge 25 years ago and he was f***ing
> great).
>
> From a guitaristic point of view, I think hearing AH on acoustic is a
> revelation. The lines flow (IMVHO) in a way I've never heard coming
> from an unamplified instrument. So compared to the electic stuff it
> may be percussive, but compared to other acoustic playing, it's
> something else.
>
> It may not be his fave recording, but it's very interesting to listen
> to. Also the music explores in directions I haven't yet heard in my
> limited experience of AH's other stuff (Atavachron, Hard Hat,
> Wardenclyffe, and the dreaded Velvet Gloom).
>
> I saw a recording recently with AH and another guitarist I found
> interesting a long long time ago, the late Ollie Halsall. Anyone know
> if this is worth getting?
>
> Richard Ashton
> richard@cam-ani.co.uk
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
========= End of Atavachron Digest ========= I
\ :::: ]I[ :::: /
Administrative requests to: : ::::::: ]] [[ ::::::: :
listserv@msuacad.morehead-st.edu ::: ]] [[ :::
''::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::''
Postings to: ::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
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::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
For more info, send HELP as the first ,,::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::,,
line in e-mail to the listserv above. ::: ]] [[ :::
: :::::: ]] . [[ :::::: :
All opinions expressed herein are / :: ] ::: [ :: \
those of the individual contributors. I I
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Japan, Australia and more are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 145
Friday, 21 April 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Re: Re: Fusion thoughts
Is it Jazz, or is it.....?
Fusion, musical genres
Re: Fusion, musical genres
The fallacies of terminology
Last Kick at the Jazz Can
Reopening the Jazz Can!
Re: Reopening the Jazz Can!
Jazz or no jazz?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 16:17:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: X90LESAGE@wmich.edu
Subject: Re: Re: Fusion thoughts
Ken,
I see what you are saying. However, I must play devil's advocate when
appropriate. I have a hard time with calling fusion a subset of jazz. Fusion
is the creation of a different musical style (at least as I see the term
used). Allan Holdsworth's music is a great example, IMO, because it is
such an abstract (to my ears) collage (fusion) of different musical influences
that it is an entirely unique form of music. Bebop, hardbop, and swing are
subsets of jazz, they fall under the same umbrella. Fusion, by definition,
falls under more than one umbrella and, thus, can't be considered an
exclusive subset of one form of music.
Best Regards,
Mark LeSage |
Department of Psychology | "...when [introspectionists] come to
Western Michigan University | analyze consciousness, naturally they find in
Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | it just what they put into it."
Tel: 616-387-4503 |
email: x90lesage@wmich.edu | J.B. Watson (1924, p. 4)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: cmcdonal@jaguar.ac.edu (Chip Mcdonald)
Subject: Is it Jazz, or is it.....?
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 06:26:00 GMT
The only common thread I've heard among "jazz" musics is
improvisational extrapolation on a theme. Some people want to hear the
dom 7th substitution thing, others must hear the spang-a-lang dotted
eight ride pattern. No matter what, there has to be some sort of
improve going on, or it sounds like elevator music. AH always expands
on the head of the tune, therefore he is jazz. U.K. was not jazz.
I think that is the big complaint many "modern jazz" purists
have against so called jazz fusion. I know of a few "names" that go
under the moniker "jazz" or "jazz fusion" but play the same exact thing
every night, except for the solo section - and even that may be worked
out sometimes. That's rock music in my book. I'm not ragging it, I'm
just saying there's no "jazz" present, it's prestructured arrangements
with perhaps some improvising going on over a static chord progression
(which again, is rock). Yeah, this would make the Grateful Dead jazz -
maybe not what I would want to listen to, but nevertheless
improvisationally based music.
_______________________________________________________________________
"Everything is important, and nothing is as important as everything"
/ \__/ _>
/ / "I too, have been ripped off by Atlanta Rhythm City"
| / | | ]]]] ] ] ] ] ]Chip McDonald / cmcdonal@jaguar.ac.edu
\ /_ (permanent address forthcoming.........)
---
* SLMR 2.1a *
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 00:30:12 CDT
From: Bill=Purcell%TS=SysCall%CS=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
Subject: Fusion, musical genres
I've found the discussion regarding the classification of AH's music rather
interesting, so I thought I'd enter the fray ...
I know this will sound Freudian, but I believe that all musicians to a
certain extent create their music as a product of their prior experiences and
influences - and although anyone who writes music is being creative in a
sense, very few musicians ever actually reach a point where they are being
truly unique and creative in an absolute manner. It follows of course, that
I believe AH to be one of these select few; I personally find his music to
be beyond classification. I agree that he draws ideas and concepts from
jazz such as improvisation and certain chord structures, but his music is so
much MORE than that. Furthermore, I think that with true artists (as opposed
to posers, wannabes, etc.) any attempt to pin them down as to a specific
style or to pigeon-hole their music as being 'type-A' or 'type-B' is an
insult to their true identity.
The music I write is original (I think so, anyway!) - and even though I
strive to find my own sound and identity, I cannot deny that what lies
beneath is a combination of my musical tastes and experiences, influences
from many guitarists, baroque music, elements of jazz and rock, and most
importantly - what I'm feeling at that moment in time. As I progress, I also
believe that my music is becoming more sophisticated, mature, and yes - less
classifiable.
Granted, it is part of our nature to find order in the universe, or to
'create' order where there is none. Honestly, to try to classify any music
today is difficult at best, but as was stated in a previous post, we create
such labels ('jazz', 'fusion') to make discussing different genres a bit
easier.
But rather than have someone tell me that I play this or that, I can think of
no higher compliment than for someone to say, "I have no idea what that is,
but it sounds incredible!" I try to keep that in mind whenever I feel my
playing leaning too far in one particular direction.
In summary, I get the feeling that AH himself is fairly reluctant to stick a
particular label on his own music. I for one, can't wait to hear more of it,
whatever it is!! :)
All responses more than welcome,
--- Bill Purcell ---
Holdsworth Metheny Johnson Malmsteen Segovia Morse Satriani
Listen ...
Learn ...
Live ...
Love.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 07:11:13 -0400
From: rardin%orion.dnet@auriga (R. Lynn Rardin)
Subject: Re: Fusion, musical genres
Bill Purcell wrote:
>Furthermore, I think that with true artists (as opposed
>to posers, wannabes, etc.) any attempt to pin them down as to a specific
>style or to pigeon-hole their music as being 'type-A' or 'type-B' is an
>insult to their true identity.
>
>...Honestly, to try to classify any music
>today is difficult at best, but as was stated in a previous post, we create
>such labels ('jazz', 'fusion') to make discussing different genres a bit
>easier.
I agree 100% and find these types of discussions fairly fruitless. What good
is a label other than marketing? Many of you probably read rec.music.bluenote
and know that about 99% of the time, there's some ongoing thread of the
"what is jazz?" sort. The end result is usually less than satisfying...
-Lynn
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 22:36:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andre LaFosse
Subject: The fallacies of terminology
This post goes on for quite a while, and isn't the most direct link to
Holdsworth that you could possibly make, but in light of the recent slant
of conversation, I thought it would be approptiate. Because while I don't
wish to offend anyone, I have to say that the recent thread over what to
call Holdsworth's music has, IMHO, demonstraed nothing so much as the utter
futility of this sort of debate.
One of the things that makes music such a potent and powerful art form is
the fact that it is capable of conveying such a broad array of qualities
that can be communicated to just about any human being with a pair of
ears and a collection of life experiences. It's a horribly hackneyed
cliche to say that music is the universal language, but it's certainly
true that a good piece of music can get itself across to people
regardless of the indiginous culture or language of either the musician
or the listener.
Consequently, when you try and put that sort of thing into a verbal
definition, you're automatically working against what the music is about,
in a certain sense. The freedom from the limitations of the spoken word
is what gives music a great deal of its power, and when you try and
define exactly what constitutes that power in terms of words, then you
have a bit of a contradiction on your hands.
Now then, one can certainly point to certain artists or certain works of
music that exemplify specific genres within the art form. The Rolling
Stones are rock and roll; Mozart is classical; Public Enemy is hip-hop;
Charlie Parker is jazz; the Mahavishnu Orchestra is fusion; and so on.
But it's important to consider that none of the above artists sat down and
said, "Okay, we're making such-and-such type of music, therefore we need
to follow this sort of approach." Rather, they did what they did based
upon their own creative intuition, and such was the influence and impact
of their work that a sufficiently large number of other artists were
compelled to follow their lead. Hence a movement, and thusly the need on
the part of people to define the movement with some sort of terminology.
It's these people, who label the music after the fact, who tend to
approach musical styles as if they were recipies or algebraic equations;
"Oh yeah -- sampled drumbeat + spoken word = rap; altered chords + Fender
rhodes = fusion; VI - II - V - I progressions + stringed instruments =
classical."
As far as I'm concerned, however, it goes a bit deeper than that. The
specific instrumentation that's associated with a style of music, or the
more superficial aspects of a genre, don't necessarily equal the essence
of the music itself. So I don't believe that just because your drummer
starts playing triplets on the ride cymbal and your bassist walks up and
down a scale in eighth notes, you're playing jazz. Or if you pick up an
electric guitar and distort it, you're therefore playing rock. To me,
that's tantamount to saying that if you buy the same clothes as Miles
Davis, and get the same haircut, and talk with the same accent, then
you'll somehow become Miles Davis. But of course, as ridiculous as that
prospect is, there are plenty of people who have gone out of their way to
emulate Davis and countless other artists in just such a manner. To me,
it's just as strange to try and reduce the essence of a music to the
stylistic clothes it wears, so to speak. (This is, in fact, the very
essence of my criticisms from a few digests back of guitarists who are
overly derivative of Holdsworth.)
For me, the thing that really defines different styles of music is the
quality that seems to be driving the music. To use very loosely-drawn
examples, I associate jazz with a sense of improvisational freedom and
spur-of-the-moment risk taking; rock draws on raw, visceral power to
magnify what are often very basic, simple compositional ideas; and so
forth. I don't really like trying to make these sorts of generalizations,
for the very same reasons that I described at the beginning of the post,
but I do so in order to demonstrate that there's a certain identifiable
quality to the different genres of music that I tend to find exhibited
more or less consistently amongst the best practitioners of a style.
That's why I can listen to albums like _Pangea_ or _Decoy_, both by Miles
and both utterly removed from the traditional concepts of jazz
instrumentation or composition (and, for that matter, from each other),
and still see how they fit into the lineage and evolution of jazz. That's
why I can understand how the delicate, studio-honed craftsmanship of _Sgt.
Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band_ can reside in the same stylistic niche
as the deliberately ugly and primal _Never Mind The Bollocks, Here's The
Sex Pistols_.
And the lines between genres can definitely get blurry at times, buckling
under the burden of the implicit limitations of their definitions. In the
early '70s, Mahavishnu did gigs with King Crimson, and about the only
things that put one group in the rock camp and the other one in the jazz
realm was the pedigrees of the groups' memberships. So progressive
instrumental workouts like "Lark's Tongues in Aspic" or "Red" are stocked
in rock, while the Narada Michael Walden pop fluff from Mahavishnu's
_Inner Worlds_ gets put in the jazz section. And surely many of the
readers on this list have heard the horror stories of Miles Davis'
corrosive early-'70s band *opening* for Steve Miller. This is what
happens when people pay too much attention to the clothes that a particular
music is wearing at any point in its development and not enough attention
to who or what is wearing those clothes.
So to finally get to Holdsworth (remember him?!), it seems to me that you
can point to the different aspects of his music, and say, "Yeah, the
guitar sounds like rock, but the harmonies sound like 20th Century
classical, but the soloing forms and structure come from jazz, but the
studio polish and overdubbing mentality comes from pop, but the
instrumentation comes from fusion..." and still not come away with any
better of an appreciation for the man's work. Matt Resnicoff once wrote
that Holdsworth's music has more labels than a soup cannery, and it seems
to me that his inability to be easily pigeonholed is, ironically enough,
one of the things that gives him his appeal, even as it prevents him from
being firmly embraced by any of the musical camps from which he draws his
myriad influences.
Clearly, there's a certain use for labels when it comes to music, if for
no other reason than it means that a person looking for a Debussy CD in a
record store won't have to search through discs by the Dead Kennedys or Al
Dimeola in order to find what they're looking for. (Then again, maybe
things would be more interesting that way). So perhaps it's best to say
that Holdsworth's style is a broad mixture of a number of different,
far-flung and heady genres of music.
Then again, maybe it's best to not worry about what the Tower Records
manager or the _Billboard_ collumnist is going to call Holdsworth's music.
Maybe it's best to just listen to the music and accept that, like the man
who created it, it exists in its own world, on its own terms.
--Andre LaFosse
alafosse@indy1.calarts.edu
altruist@shoko.calarts.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 95 11:42:27 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Last Kick at the Jazz Can
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
Andre LaFosse wrote about "the fallacy of terminology" recently and raised a
number of interesting points. I'm unable to keep from replying; forgive me!
"I have to say that the recent thread over what to call Holdsworth's music
has, IMHO, demonstrated nothing so much as the utter futility of this sort of
debate."
I thought the thread was about analyzing the stylistic elements of AH's music
in hopes of making some sort of rudimentary definition of what it is. I
hesitate to call this futile - maybe frustrating, but not futile. In my mind,
stylistic analysis is important: it helps us relate to new musics and gives us
a handle on how to make that music if we desire. Again, not futile. If we
think of analysis as a process and not a product then it can be seen as very
worthwhile. Typically, as prisoners of our western culture, we tend to want to
make something concrete with our every effort - this is sort of an outgrowth
of the Protestant work ethic. We should be doing something productive all the
time. At the end of a debate on musical styles we're usually left with nothing
but our opinions. Not very satisfying is it? But if, during the debate, you
learn something new about music then maybe it was worthwhile. Also, sometimes
debate is an excellent tool for re-structuring our thoughts - much like
teaching. If there are any guitar teachers out there (I dabbled ages ago) you
must remember the experience of teaching a simple concept only to discover
something new when using your student's eyes?I guess this is a long pre-amble
defending my need to wade into the debate again. Here goes.
Music can be reduced to pitch elements, rhythmic elements and timbral
elements. A valid analysis can be made of any music using these three
organizers. For example, jazz is made up of a commonly understood set of
chords, "ting-a-ling" dotted eighth rhythms and certain instrument sounds.
It's possible to make jazz music with variations on the accepted elements, but
it remains jazz as long as a certain subset remains. I guess one of the areas
of "futility" is trying to agree on what constitutes a recognizable subset of
jazz elements. Wynton Marsalis's subset would be very different from Pat
Metheny's. A common thread which people bring to jazz analysis is the idea
that it is jazz if it is improvisational. From a music analysis standpoint you
can't know what the player was thinking, all you can analyze is the sound
vibrations. It may sound improvised but you never know, therefore traditional
analysis doesn't consider the mental process that went into making the music.
The fact is there are more improvisational styles around the world than strict
compositional styles.So to restrict analysis of jazz to whether the players im
provise or not, doesn't provide much of an insight into the music.
"It's a horribly hackneyed cliche to say that music is the universal language,
but it's certainly true that a good piece of music can get itself across to
people regardless of the indigenous culture or language of either the musician
or the listener."
I strongly disagree that music is a universal language. Music isn't a language
at all - you can't say "I'm hungry!" by playing a Bb chord. Further, every
emotion that music produces is a learned response. Minor keys aren't "sad" by
themselves - we are trained to hear them that way. Someone who hears a raga
for the first time will have no idea what the cultural associations are for
that particular raga - it's just sound.However, in India, the playing of a rag
a will produce very specific emotional reactions - because the listener has
been trained to associate an emotion with the music. There are some basic
physiological responses that music can elicit - outside of learning. If you
stand in front of the PA at a Spinal Tap concert your diaphragm will move in
sink with the bass drivers - you will get an unnerving feeling of dread as a
result. This follows the James-Lange theory of emotions, paraphrased here: If
you feel your heart beat increase then you deduce that you must be aroused or
excited, even if the increase is purely a pharmacological reaction.
"Consequently, when you try and put that sort of thing into a verbal
definition, you're automatically working against what the music is about, in a
certain sense."
Music is just sound, it's not about anything. We make cultural associations
with certain kinds of sound but that exists in us, not the music. It is quite
possible to verbalize what is in music (the physical analysis) and it is
equally possible to verbalize how it makes us feel.
The bottomline for me is that I don't understand something until I can explain
it. This to me is a worthwhile endeavour. I don't think that a full
understanding of music, and the subsequent de-mystification of the music, in
any way impacts my emotional appreciation of a Holdsworth composition or solo.
(I figured I better mention Holdsworth at least once of Jeff Preston my cut me
off!)
Looking forward to more opinions from everybody.
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation
V: 604.389.3503 F:360.7285
CPMANUEL@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 14:56:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: X90LESAGE@wmich.edu
Subject: Reopening the Jazz Can!
I was happy to read Chris's reply to Andre. The analysis in this thread
is FAR from futile. It addresses a very vexing problem, maybe for
most of us atavachronies, especially for me. When I bring up Allan's
music in a conversation and rave about how great it is, I am faced with
a problem. That is, someone inevitably asks "What is his music (guitar
playing) like?" or "Could you describe it for me?" (with the implicit
intent of gathering information upon which a decision to listen to it for
the first time is based). Do you see the enormity of the problem? We play
the role of advertiser in this situation, and in all due respect for truth
in advertising, it behooves us to provide as precise and honest an answer
as possible. I will continue to analyze (which as a doctoral student I love
to do anyway :)) any musical form to develop further as precise a verbal
repertoire as possible. I will be more able to describe Allan's music
in such a way that it increases the probability of my listener putting
one of Allan's cd's in their cd player, or not. Either way, both my listener
and I benefit. A country-lover may avoid wasting her/his time (and
maybe money), while the jazz-lover may thrill at a new discovery. And I
benefit from having helped either of them. The more I think about it, the
more simple-minded the futility argument seems to me. Such an argument
has the drastic implication that
we should give up on our analyses and forget about trying to impart some
of our knowledge to others so that they can be more effective in their
exploration of music. Why not give them an honest guiding hand?
Moreover, effective description can evoke musical exploration in people
otherwise not so inclined. That is, when one can take the analysis a step
further and describe their personal responses to the music, the honesty
in their excitement imparts the music with the capacity to evoke similar
responses in the novice listener and, for lack of better terms at the moment,
to "hunger" for more. The effect? They start seeking out and procuring more
diverse music and bask in the joyous novelty of it all. Such an effect is,
in large part, due to our ability to analyze both the music and our response
to the music, and, thus, to describe the music.
I realize that a person ultimately has to *listen* to the music. But,
just giving a person a cd or tape in lieu of a verbal description
does not ensure that they will listen to it. Neither does it ensure that
if they do listen to it, they will *understand* it or otherwise be affected
by it in a positive way. I would like to write more, but I have to go now.
Probably said too much already anyway :)
Best Regards,
Mark LeSage |
Department of Psychology | "...when [introspectionists] come to
Western Michigan University | analyze consciousness, naturally they find in
Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | it just what they put into it."
Tel: 616-387-4503 |
email: x90lesage@wmich.edu | J.B. Watson (1924, p. 4)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Paul Morris"
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 1995 20:19:34 +0000
Subject: Re: Reopening the Jazz Can!
HI to all!
This is my first post to the on-going Holdsworthian discussion. I
was intrigued by the very erudite comments of Andre, Chris , and
Mark. I felt myself being pulled towards agreeing with each in turn
as I read each post. I guess what I'm trying to say is that they all
have very valid ideas and no one is totally right therefore the
others aren't totally wrong. Being a fan of AH's music, I tend not
to try to categorize it unless as was mentioned someone asks for a
label to put on it. One thing about music is that there's plenty of
it available, in such a wide spectrum of styles/tastes that each
person being the unique individual they are, can find something that
"grabs their fancy". To some degree, it's irrelevant, because
erudite analysis of any genre is not what motivates people to listen,
but rather the elements of the music [rhythm, melody, etc] interacts
with the listener emotionally to draw them in. Any discussion
serves to ignite the passions and therefore, is not fruitless or
pointless. Anyway, thanks for the time and interest, bye for now,
Paul Morris [pmorris@netaccess.on.ca]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Atro Tossavainen
Subject: Jazz or no jazz?
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:25:51 +0300 (EET DST)
Chris Manuel writes:
> Personally, I think of AH's music as fusion, not jazz: jazz harmonies with a
> rock rhythmic and timbral sensibility. I think any stylistic analysis of a
> piece of music has to consider timbral choices, rhythmic elements, and
> harmony. Miko suggests that "THE HARMONY" is the only area necessary when
> classifying music. Certainly, Holdsworth uses a harmonic system that suggests
> jazz - if that is your only point of analysis then I guess he plays jazz.
So:
- (I'm talking about post-Secrets offerings) Considering timbral choices Allan
uses less processing and has greater separation than most jazz OR rock. The
sound is rather pure, with only a limited amount of echo to keep it from
sounding dead. Rock records tend to be overdone with overdubs and echo,
jazz usually brings to mind muddy sound recorded with one mike (exaggeration
alert :-)
- Rhythmic elements - no shuffle eighths here, so it can't be swing, but
not all jazz is swing, and rock musicians didn't invent odd meter or
complex rhythms. So while Allan does sometimes play rather straight-
forward (e.g. Metal Fatigue), the rhythm is far more complicated than
in rock, and the features that distinguish the rhythm of his music from
most rock certainly didn't come from prog rock, but from fusion or who
knows, maybe even from classical music!
--
Atro Tossavainen E-mail: atossava@cc.helsinki.fi
@ University of Helsinki, Finland tossaat@ami.fi
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Japan, Australia and more are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 146
Thursday, 27 April 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 145
Gongzilla & some odd monsters
Melbourne dates - again!
Info on AH's works
CHANGE: U.S. Tour Dates
Re: Atavachron Digest Number 145
RE: tour dates
Your work
Re: Your work
Your work
Re: Allan's Werk
No UK dates? : - (
The mother of all the kick on the jazzcan Re's
Re: Melbourne dates - again!
Divisions (a quickie)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 22:13:26 -0400
From: James Peele
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 145
Just wanted to say that Gongzilla "Suffer" is amazing. My friend just
got it for free! Does anyone know how I can obtain this at a discount.
I do a radio show and would play the hell out of this CD....
Thanks,
Jay Peele
jpeele@unf6.cis.unf.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 10:14:36 +0200
From: rene@via.nl (Rene Janssen)
Subject: Gongzilla & some odd monsters
Jay Peele wrote :
>Just wanted to say that Gongzilla "Suffer" is amazing. My friend just
>got it for free! Does anyone know how I can obtain this at a discount.
>I do a radio show and would play the hell out of this CD....
Hi Jay and other avatronics,
I received the record from Gongzilla directly from Bon today. (bonlo@pan.com)
I thank Jeff Preston for putting this album in the spotlight.
Do you happen to notice that the monster (Gongzilla) has alot in common
with Netscapes (the WWW browser) monster Mozilla ? GGrrRuAaA !
Well the the monster on the cover isn't the only one. There are some
MoNsTeRs playing along too... and one of them surely has to be beamed down
by Mr. Spock.
They play alot of odd-meter stuff , which I like alot as a drummer.
Speaking of odd-meters, the most odd sounding (and corny too) I've heard
still is 'keep it greasy' from FZ on Joe's Garage. (19/16)
1...2...3...4.eh?.1...
Well with the exception of Strawinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps. That is really
some masterpiece !
I hope Allan does more of that oddstuff adventures in time in the future.
Maybe I've got a rythmic tip for the guitarists/bassists amongst this
newsgroup. Check out the following (its called backwards playing, its
nothing new though, just rythmic modulations)
1...2...3...4...1...2...3...4...1...2...3...4...1...2...3...4...
v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v vv v v v v v v v v v v :Hihat
x x x x x x x x x :snare
o o o o o o o o o :Bass
Bye Now,
Rene
\/
rene@via.nl /\
http://www.via.nl/users/rene/rene.html ||
\/
Rene Janssen. /\
e-mail : rene@via.nl_______||__________________
WWW : http://www.via.nl/users/rene/rene.html
_______
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Duncan Chung Wing Mok
Subject: Melbourne dates - again!
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 07:30:33 +1000 (EST)
Hi there...
Just thought I'd pass on the news that Allan's gig's have been advertised
locally as being on May 16 and 17, with a workshop during the day on the 17th,
and the venue is The Continental, in Greville Street, Prahran.
He's got Chad, Skuli and Steve with him this time around. My drummer friend is
ecstatic that Chad is playing!
I have not been to the Continental, but its reputation is high, and it
attracts many high class local and professional acts in the jazz, rock and soul
arenas. Tickets for the Holdsworth gig are $57 for dinner and show, and
$20 standing. As opposed to the Al Jareau show I saw this past week at the
Hilton Ballroom, which was $125 for dinner and show. (worth every cent though!)
For bookings the paper lists (03) 510 2788 as The Continental's credit card
booking line, seven days a week.
Cheers from DownUnder,
Dunk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Duncan CW Mok Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology University
B.Eng (Computer Systems Engineering) B.App.Sci (Computer Science)
_-_|\
/ \ 8 Maitland Avenue Telephone: (+613) 817 1395
\_.-._/ East Kew VIC 3102 Facsimile: (+613) 817 4659
v AUSTRALIA email: s914398@yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au
I work for Data-Tech Systems, but I don't speak for them...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 22:45:25 EDT
From: jwu@uhavax.hartford.edu
Subject: Info on AH's works
Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I'm sort of new to Allan's
work and was wondering if any of you out there could give me some
album titles that are worth checking into. I have Hard Hat Area and
Wardenclyffe Tower...also I have the new Chad Wackerman CD (Which is
a great album!!!!). I was wondering if anyone could reccomend albums
of fusion and "new" jazz stuff. Both of Allan's work as well as others...
Please email me your responses to: jwu@uhavax.hartford.edu
Thanks for any help!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 22:56:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: CHANGE: U.S. Tour Dates
Hiya, folks. I'm waiting for confirmation, but Claire's latest note
seems to reflect the following changes to the U.S. itinerary:
scratch 6/19 Sacremento, CA Board Walk
add 7/6 Boston, MA Sculler's (hey, Lynn!)
add 7/9 Clifton Park, NY Charity's Night Club
scratch 7/11 Piermont, NY Turning Point
add 7/11 Alexandria, VA Birchmere
Keep in mind that Claire may have omitted information unintentionally;
at any rate, I'll update the "finger" and WWW information tomorrow (and
re-announce any further changes as they come in from Claire).
Also, Claire mentioned that Allan is busily assembling Harnesses, and
plans to take some to Japan next week when the tour kicks off.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/home.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 05:43:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul Mason
Subject: Re: Atavachron Digest Number 145
Having just read the latest Digest with its wonderfully diverse set of
opinions and beliefs I'd have to say that, regardless of what titles
might be applied ( relevant or not ) to the music(s) that we all hold so
dear, as long as we all continue to be enthusiastic and to voice that
enthusiasm to those around us then that music stands at least some chance
of being more widely heard.
Whether or not the world at large ever really grabs and appreciates
Holdsworth ( which is improbable but not impossible, I think ) at least
there are a few of us who care enough to write, think, argue, buy,
listen etc.
And, provided there's a shred of interest and intellect in the next
person to whom we try and pass the torch ( cue the Vangelis soundtrack
right about here.... ), there's the possibility of another opinion
appearing here in the Digest.
The only dead loss is going to be the kind of person who, to paraphrase
AH, listens with his or her eyes. This kind of unwillingness to see
anything beyond what is either already known or else marketed in a manner
convincing enough to generate an urge to purchase/acquire falls under the
list of symptoms for what I call "recto-cranial inversion" and,
unfortunately, it is fairly widespreaad.
But we can still try....
Regards
Paul
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 09:41:14 -0400
From: rardin%orion.dnet@auriga (R. Lynn Rardin)
Subject: RE: tour dates
> add 7/6 Boston, MA Sculler's (hey, Lynn!)
This is excellent news! I'm happily surprised he's appearing at Sculler's.
He often appears at, shall we say, lesser venues in the Boston area.
Sculler's is a "jazz club" in a decent hotel. Should be good.
-Lynn
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:14:58 -0400
From: Josh911@aol.com
Subject: Your work
Allan:
I love your work. It is the most refreshing and unique guitar music
available today. But, you know what would be REALLY great. Allan Holdsworth
doing a Hard Rock GUITAR album!! It would be AWESOME!
Josh
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 18:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Re: Your work
> From: Josh911@aol.com
> Subject: Your work
> Allan:
Just a reminder to all: Even though Allan and his family have
Internet access, they do not, to my knowledge, read Atavachron.
> I love your work. It is the most refreshing and unique guitar music
> available today. But, you know what would be REALLY great. Allan Holdsworth
> doing a Hard Rock GUITAR album!! It would be AWESOME!
Have you heard his guest spots with Jeff Watson (ex-Night Ranger
guitarist)? Or with Alex Masi? I can't say these are my personal
favorites, but they're hard rock, certainly. His Tony Williams spots
are serious contenders for the hard rock genre, IMO. I think the new
Gongzilla CD rocks pretty hard, but I'm not sure that everyone would
agree (keyboard percussion on a *rock* album?).
At any rate, it would surprise me to see Allan devote a whole album
to a genre which is already rather crowded and not widely-known for
innovation.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/home.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 95 16:05:59 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Your work
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
*** Reply to note of 04/25/95 15:36
Josh911 writes:
"...(AH's music)... is the most refreshing and unique guitar music available
today. ...you know what would be really great...(AH) doing a Hard Rock GUITAR
album!"
Josh,
Welcome to the Atavachron listserv! I think I'll follow Jeff Preston's _very_
diplomatic lead and refrain from a total cringe attack.
Just a thought: if you find AH's work refreshing and unique why would you want
a hard rock GUITAR album from him? It's kind of like asking Debussy to play
some stride piano. Actually that might be kind of neat - especially the
raising him from the dead part.
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation
V: 604.389.3503 F:360.7285
CPMANUEL@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 20:01:50 -0400
From: jerfo@student.umass.edu
Subject: Re: Allan's Werk
> Have you heard his guest spots with Jeff Watson (ex-Night Ranger
> guitarist)? Or with Alex Masi? I can't say these are my personal
> favorites, but they're hard rock, certainly. His Tony Williams spots
> are serious contenders for the hard rock genre, IMO. I think the new
> Gongzilla CD rocks pretty hard, but I'm not sure that everyone would
> agree (keyboard percussion on a *rock* album?).
What about Allan's solo on the one track on the Krokus LP? Granted, I
wouldn't force that music on my worst enemy, but...
*Jerfo*
jerfo@student.umass.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 02:46:31 +0100
From: nmcb@dircon.co.uk (Neil McBennett)
Subject: No UK dates? : - (
Does anyone know if Allan has any British dates scheduled
in the tour? I will feel seriously ill if the answer is no! Still, I could
always
go for a pint of real ale instead!
Neil McBennett
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 1995 07:19:41 +0200
From: rene@via.nl (Rene Janssen)
Subject: The mother of all the kick on the jazzcan Re's
I give up ! The recent postings about categorizing AH's style of playing
on his solo records are inspiring and constructive but nevertheless not so
relevant for a listener with an open mind. If I would have to explain what
kind of music AH plays and what makes it so special and different from others
I would have a hard time because music is in fact not very explainable.
You can experience music and genererate thoughtprocessess in your mind.
And maybe youre emotionally effected by it, that is you're surpised by
the effect what the music does to you or just : it caught you by surprise !
So what Label should I give AH ? Well for indication I could call it
Avantgarde electric jazz. Avantgarde because AH is in fact a pionier
(synthaxe) and a master who commands his instrument and because he is always
exploring new musical possibilities and he has that urge for always trying
to perfect his personal sound. Further I would call it electric, because
there's pretty much electricity involved ! Finally I would call it jazz
instead of fusion because the word fusion is often associated with these
slick commercial productions (Kenny G,Acoustic Alchemy) while on the other
hand jazz could be associated with these grey old men with lots a money who
play golf and like Dixieland jazz. Yuk...
Well because Dixieland is a subset and I mean a subsubsubset of jazz ,
and jazz could be explained as a superset of many styles I prefer JAZZ.;)
Trilok Gurtu plays jazz so if that ain't a superset of styles I don't know it
anymore. You could also name it Jazzrock but that still has a kind of
dead and buried 70's aura. Or should we call it jazzrockfusion ? Anybody got
a better name ? Well it really does not matter at all...
Ok thats for association analysis. But more important is the stylistic
analysis. AH does alot of improvisational soloing and the jazzinfluences are
obvious (just look at his bio) and the music is pretty much instrumental so
it fits well in the jazz/fusion corner.
So far that topic. Another fact is that Allan is in fact NOT a prototype
session musician kind of guy like Vinnie Colaiuta. Vinnie can be a real
cameleon sometimes. Even as a trained listener, you can have alot of
difficulty in hearing his identity come across. No ,not on his solo-debut
but on his lesser known popmusic work like on one track on a Madonna album.
I do not remember what its called..
With Allan you always hear his identity shine through. But I guess he could
play very 'undercover' too.. Anybody got an example ?
Another question that was raised by Paul Mason is : could AH ever receive
a wide audience ? Very unlikely indeed, unless someone like Sting knocks
on his door. The music he makes just has a small audience. And he's not
in it for the money, because then he would not play this kind of music but
hardrock or other commercially succesfull kind of 'music' (country ?).
So if he keeps surviving with his music, thats really an artform of its own !
Well I guess I should quit now..
I would like to see that Allan & Claire join this forum ! I understand that
he's busy and he doesn't want to give up his e-mail adress and be bothered
by people trashing his mailbox with fanmail. But he could use an anonymous
remailer instead ! An anonymous piece of brewery-text could be quit
inspiring and helpfull sometimes !
Bye now,
Rene.
\/
Rene Janssen. /\
e-mail : rene@via.nl_______||__________________
WWW : http://www.via.nl/users/rene/rene.html
_______
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mr R Teh
Subject: Re: Melbourne dates - again!
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 14:15:54 +1000 (EST)
Hi,
the continental is a great place to watch a musician such as
Allan performed. I've seen Robben Ford, and Steve Morse att hat
at that venue, and enjoyed it very much. It's very cosy and the decor's
great. This is a better venue than Central Hotel where Allan last
performed.
Richie
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mr M P Hughes
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 10:23:22 BST
Subject: Divisions (a quickie)
Recently, someone from The Wire magazine asked a member of the Kronos Quartet
to sum up what kind of music that outfit played. He replied "we play Kronos
music." Holdsworth music should be enough :)
Michael
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I ========= End of Atavachron Digest =========
\ :::: ]I[ :::: /
: ::::::: ]] [[ ::::::: : Administrative requests to:
::: ]] [[ ::: listserv@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
''::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::''
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ ::: Postings to:
::: =a=t=a=v=a=c=h=r=o=n= ::: atavachron@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
,,::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::,, For more info, send HELP as first
::: ]] [[ ::: line in e-mail to the listserv above.
: :::::: ]] . [[ :::::: :
/ :: ] ::: [ :: \ All opinions expressed herein are
I I those of the individual contributors.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Japan, Australia and more are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 147
Thursday, 27 April 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Venue in Melbourne -- where?
Re: The mother of all...no Net contact.
Re: The mother of all...no Net contact.
Re: The mother of all...no Net contact.
Access to Mr. Holdsworth
UPDATE: More tour itinerary additions
Re: The mother of all...no Net contact
New album?
Re: UPDATE: More tour itinerary additions
Re: Access to Mr. Holdsworth
Holdsworth Tour Dates in US
Elitists
the unknown David Gilmour
A mondopost of epic proportions
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 09:22:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Venue in Melbourne -- where?
> From: Duncan Chung Wing Mok
> Subject: Melbourne dates - again!
> Just thought I'd pass on the news that Allan's gig's have been advertised
> locally as being on May 16 and 17, with a workshop during the day on the 17th,
> and the venue is The Continental, in Greville Street, Prahran.
Have you confirmed this, Duncan? The last e-mail from Claire seemed
to indicate the Grainstore as the venue -- could it have changed one
way or the other? Please keep me posted (especially if you get tickets).
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/home.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 11:49:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Patrick M. McMillin"
Subject: Re: The mother of all...no Net contact.
I agree completely on the fact that E-Mail contact should
exist between this forum and its subject. It is unbelievable
that the members of the Brewery have Net usage but have no
association with this listserv. I am guessing that it is a
matter of Allan's characteristic modesty, yet this reason
does not hold water for me-in addition, the Atava is used
for all types of music and players that have relevance to
fusion or similar content. As a final capitalistic note, it
is difficult to imagine Allan's discontent with record sales
if he chooses not to communicate with his core appreciation
base. Maybe Jeff can expound on this lack of relations.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|) Patrick M. McMillin
/ The University of Texas at Austin
/| patrick-mc@mail.utexas.edu
~~~~~~~ / |__ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
( (|_ ) Save the bandwidth...
\_|_/ Cut text!!!
J
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 13:02:05 EDT
From: Daniel Ginsberg
Subject: Re: The mother of all...no Net contact.
Actually, I think things are lots peachier than some think. It is not
as if we had NO access to A.H.; in fact the last interview Allan did
for this list was a good bit to mull over. And however nifty it might be
for us to have him "on tap" here I have to believe that it would be
a real trial for him. I know that I wouldn't be comfortable standing in
a room where the folx were dedicated to talking about me. *laff*
And the bottom line, really, is that he knows of this list and and has
been very cooperative (IMHO). Clearly he knows that he COULD lurk or
participate and he has chosen not to. Lest the tail start wagging the
dog we oughtta honor that choice. No?
Dan
dginsber@uconnvm.uconn.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:26:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: Re: The mother of all...no Net contact.
> From: Patrick M. McMillin
> Subject: Re: The mother of all...no Net contact.
> I agree completely on the fact that E-Mail contact should
> exist between this forum and its subject. It is unbelievable
> that the members of the Brewery have Net usage but have no
> association with this listserv. I am guessing that it is a
> matter of Allan's characteristic modesty, yet this reason
> does not hold water for me-
I think it is true that Allan does not accept complements very
graciously -- not that it's an easy thing to do.
> in addition, the Atava is used
> for all types of music and players that have relevance to
> fusion or similar content. As a final capitalistic note, it
> is difficult to imagine Allan's discontent with record sales
> if he chooses not to communicate with his core appreciation
> base. Maybe Jeff can expound on this lack of relations.
Hmmm. Well, I don't want to speak for Allan, but if *I* were in his
position, I don't think I would be interested in reading people's
comments on *my* work. I am thankful that our employee evaluations
are only handed out once a year here at MSU -- and I consistantly
have had outstanding reviews. I think good work stands on its own
merit.
Besides, it is not as if they have *no* contact with us; Claire is
generally very considerate of the list and keeping us up to date,
albeit indirectly. Whether that is simply a privacy issue, or one of
trying to keep the amount of time they spend online manageable, I
couldn't say. I know their provider charges by usage, so perhaps it
is easier to keep in touch with one or two people as opposed to 325.
At any rate, if you have a question that you feel hasn't been answered
adequately elsewhere -- either on the list or in interviews past --
I can try to get a response from Allan (but it might not get an
immediate response).
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/home.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 11:28:22 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Access to Mr. Holdsworth
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
This question of access to Mr. Holdsworth is an interesting one - one that
I've pondered over for awhile.
I think there are some larger issues here: understanding our relationship with
celebrities. There's a special thrill in meeting and talking with a celebrity
- this thrill has nothing to do with their work or their reality as a human
being. It's just cool to meet someone who was on TV :-) I think if I were a
public person as Allan Holdsworth is, who has been in and out of the public
eye for twenty years, I would be very wary of new relationships, be they in
person or on the net. I don't imagine he would see much profit in "hanging
out" with his digital fans. Afterall, how many times would you want to
describe your hardware rig, what scales you use, and what motivated you to
write such and such a song?.
Generally I find that we socialize with our peers. This sounds obvious, I
know, but the question it raises is whether AH would see us as peers. Although
he is known as a modest man - there have been many stories presented on
Atavachron that support this - I have to think that he sees his peer group as
being a little different from netfans. This isn't meant as a putdown, more an
appreciation of the fact that he has obviously worked VERY hard to create his
body of work. Anyone who plays guitar knows the man has practiced his fingers
to the bone, developed a powerful understanding of the technical side of audio
and recording, and has made some exceptional life choices to do what he does.
I do think we are fortunate to have the access we do have to the man - maybe
this will evolve as the listserv evolves so that we can gain more insight into
the man and his music.
Just my two cents worth ...
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation
V: 604.389.3503 F:360.7285
CPMANUEL@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:04:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: UPDATE: More tour itinerary additions
More tour dates have been added for California, folks. Claire again
wanted me to make clear that all dates (except the San Diego date) are
subject to change, but this is how the whole tour is shaping up thusfar:
May 2 - 6 Tokyo The Pit Inn
May 9 - 11 Sydney The Basement
May 14 Brisbane Van Gogh's Earlobe
May 16 - 17 Melbourne Grainstore
May 18 Adelaide Cartoons
June 14 Solana Beach (San Diego),CA The Belly Up
June 15* Los Angeles, CA The Mint
June 16* San Rafael, CA New George's
June 17* Sacramento, CA Board Walk
June 18* San Francisco, CA Great American Music Hall
June 20 Seattle, WA Back Stage
June 23 Winnipeg, MB The Pyramid
June 24 Saskatoon, SK Adam Ballroom
June 26 Edmonton, AB Westin Hotel
June 28 Vancouver, BC Commodore
June 29 Toronto, ON Festival
June 30-July 1 Quebec, PQ Bar Spectacle
July 6 Boston, MA Sculler's
July 7 Northampton, MA Pearl Street
July 8 Huntington, NY IMAC
July 9 Clifton Park, NY Charity's Night Club
July 11 Alexandria, VA Birchmere
July 12 Philadelphia, PA Theatre of Living Arts
July 13 Morgan, NJ Club Bene
July 14 - 15 New York, NY Bottom Line
(*) most recent additions
As you can see, the Sacremento date does appear to be back in the
itinerary. Claire did say, however, that the Piermont, NY date is not
going to happen, so far as she is aware.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/home.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 95 14:57:51 -0400
From: rardin%orion.dnet@auriga (R. Lynn Rardin)
Subject: Re: The mother of all...no Net contact
I agree with Jeff's assessment. Even if he wasn't paying for access, I'm sure
he keeps himself busy. And I'm sure hearing critiques of your work on a daily
basis wouldn't be so pleasant (although, admittedly, members of the list are
very positive for the most part when it comes to Allan). One other point is
Allan's presence here on a regular and open basis might put a damper on some
of the discussion that goes on here.
One thing that would be great is if Allan would make himself available for an
electronic conference now and then! :)
-Lynn
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 13:40:55 -0700
From: edju@chaph.usc.edu (Edward Ju)
Subject: New album?
The new issue of Guitar for the Practicing Musician has a section
called "Guitar Watch" and Allan's name was listed in there. Is Allan coming
out with a new CD or something? Because it seems like he's just not doing
anything (other than touring) at all lately.
Eddie
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:19:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: X90LESAGE@wmich.edu
Subject: Re: UPDATE: More tour itinerary additions
Haven't seen any midwest dates yet. Will he make it? Will begging
on hands and knees bring him here!? :)
Regards,
Mark LeSage |
Department of Psychology | "...when [introspectionists] come to
Western Michigan University | analyze consciousness, naturally they find in
Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | it just what they put into it."
Tel: 616-387-4503 |
email: x90lesage@wmich.edu | J.B. Watson (1924, p. 4)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:28:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Patrick M. McMillin"
Subject: Re: Access to Mr. Holdsworth
I guess I could have been more specific in my posting...I
agree that there is some inherent awkwardness to subscribing
to a listserv that is about yourself, but there are certain
issues that Allan could have helped out on. For instance, on
the subject of the Harness (keep in mind Allan wants to sell
this and make profit) could he have not just made a simple
post explaining the specs. It is silly that he and Claire
have net access, yet members of the Atava had to debate and
speculate on this subject. It is possible that Allan didn't
realize the interest that a handmade product would produce,
but it would have been a very appropriate, helpful, and wise
use of the listserv. This is just an example of a possible
'tasteful' participation on Allan's part. Thanks for all of
the previous replies.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|) Patrick M. McMillin
/ The University of Texas at Austin
/| patrick-mc@mail.utexas.edu
~~~~~~~ / |__ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
( (|_ ) Save the bandwidth...
\_|_/ Cut text!!!
J
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:06:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Edward Martin Shuford
Subject: Holdsworth Tour Dates in US
I saw Jeff's update of added and cancelled shows, but can anyone tell me
what the full-scale US tour looks like (specifically, is Allan coming to
Portland or Seattle)? Also, is there any further indication how serious
this rift is between Allan and Gary Husband. Finally, has anyone heard
word of when Gary's solo album is coming out?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:10:05 -0700
From: dmick@pongo73.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Subject: Elitists
Chris Manuel says:
> Just a thought: if you find AH's work refreshing and unique why would you want
> a hard rock GUITAR album from him? It's kind of like asking Debussy to play
> some stride piano.
jerfo@student.umass.edu says
> What about Allan's solo on the one track on the Krokus LP? Granted, I
> wouldn't force that music on my worst enemy, but...
Geez. What a bunch of elitists!
For the record, there is plenty for people who like Allan to like in
"hard rock GUITAR".
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Malcolm Humes
Subject: the unknown David Gilmour
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:14:59 -0700 (PDT)
Saw David Torn's solo set the othernight in San Francisco, a good
set, followed by Trilok Gurtu's band. There's been some mention on
Usenet recently of Gilmour asking he's the Floyd dude. Nope. But
he was the standout of the Gurtu set for me aside from Trilok's
amazing percussion. Thought I'd menion it here because Gilmour's
guitar style seemed to bear some obvious Holdsworth influences,
but in a way that I found refreshing. His style mixed a lot of
funky wah guitar with blistering AH-ish riffing, sometimes within
the same piece of music! I don't recall Allan using a wah much if ever,
so I wouldn't say that Gilmour came off as a Holdsworth clone really.
He also balanced the riffs and wah with some decently grungy crimsonoid
dark chords. While it was the "Crazy Saints" tour I'm not sure how
much of the band was the same as on the Crazy Saints cd (Zawinul
wasn't tehre for he concert.)
Must say that Gurtu's set was the most diverse and dynamic fusion
concert I've seen in ages, and he's probably the most impressive
percussionist I've seen live (about 5 times now!). David Gilmour
rounded out the show well, overshadowing the bassist and keyboard
player, and I'm certain some of you folks would enjoy hearing him.
Just got a copy of Gongzilla, I'll probably post a review once I digest
it.
- malcolm
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 19:15:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jeff Preston
Subject: A mondopost of epic proportions
> From: Edward Ju
> Subject: New album?
> The new issue of Guitar for the Practicing Musician has a section
> called "Guitar Watch" and Allan's name was listed in there. Is Allan coming
> out with a new CD or something?
The next thing to expect from Mr. H. is the "straight ahead" album
with Gordon Beck (as has been discussed here in the past few months),
but I've yet to hear a "firm estimate" on a release date. I wouldn't
have expected GFTPM to have taken an interest in THAT, oddly enough...
> From: "Patrick M. McMillin"
> Subject: Re: Access to Mr. Holdsworth
> For instance, on
> the subject of the Harness (keep in mind Allan wants to sell
> this and make profit) could he have not just made a simple
> post explaining the specs.
I don't totally disagree here. I am still pretty surprised that
neither he nor Claire have answered my request for ordering info
for the Harness (an address; payee for the check, etc.); in fact,
I've asked for it twice. It may just be a matter of them not finding
time to get back to me... or maybe they've been reading my anti-
laundry-list rants on 'alt.guitar' again, and want to distance
themselves from me. ;) But I must say that considering the number
of units thusfar shipped (according to Claire), I am a bit distressed
that I have been contacted by two individuals here on the list who
claim they would have their checks in the mail today -- if only they
knew to whom to send them!
> From: John Edward Martin Shuford
> Subject: Holdsworth Tour Dates in US
>I saw Jeff's update of added and cancelled shows, but can anyone tell me
>what the full-scale US tour looks like (specifically, is Allan coming to
>Portland or Seattle)?
If you keep this up, John, we'll have to get your coffee dosage
adjusted. ;) From the list of dates:
June 20 Seattle, WA Back Stage
But to be serious for a second, this is a somewhat atypical itinerary
for Allan. He has not generally played this many Canadian dates in
recent years, and usually doesn't tour the eastern U.S. until later in
the year (September, October). I'm holding out for the possibility of
midwestern dates later in the year (please, please). :)
> From: Dan Mick
> Subject: Elitists
>For the record, there is plenty for people who like Allan to like in
>"hard rock GUITAR".
I agree (though the "elitist" label may be a bit harsh; I don't think
Chris or Jerfo meant for their comments to be taken at face value).
There are plenty of rockers and metalheads out there who like Allan's
music, and I do think they sometimes get a bum rap for only seeing the
speed aspect of his playing. To me, it makes no difference WHAT it is
that someone gets from Allan's music, because I think that differs
widely. As long as they go out and buy the albums and see the shows
and keep some change in the man's pocket, I'm all for it -- 'cause
that is what it takes to keep him in the album-making business.
> From: Malcolm Humes
> Subject: the unknown David Gilmour
>Saw David Torn's solo set the othernight in San Francisco, a good
>set, followed by Trilok Gurtu's band. There's been some mention on
>Usenet recently of Gilmour asking he's the Floyd dude. Nope.
In fact, his name is spelled differently: Gilmore, I believe.
>But
>he was the standout of the Gurtu set for me aside from Trilok's
>amazing percussion. Thought I'd menion it here because Gilmour's
>guitar style seemed to bear some obvious Holdsworth influences,
>but in a way that I found refreshing.
I can't really speak to that, since I only have one CD with Gilmore
(M-Base Collective's _Anatomy of a Groove_), but it is a favorite in
my house. His playing there doesn't hint at Holdsworth by any stretch,
IMO, but the music really smokes and grooves. Isn't Gilmore on a Lost
Tribe CD somewhere? I've had the intention to order something by them
for some time now, but I've had other, more pressing concerns.
>Just got a copy of Gongzilla, I'll probably post a review once I digest
>it.
There's room on the ol' Web server for it, if you feel froggy. :)
That goes for the rest of you posting-crazy jamokes as well... geez,
this has been a record-breaking day for Atavachron, guys. It's a good
thing I changed the oil in the listserv last week, eh? ;)
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston \\\ Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
to subscribe \\\ e-mail: atavachron-request@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
Web Page URL \\\ http://suppcoo.morehead-st.edu/atav/docs/home.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
========= End of Atavachron Digest ========= I
\ :::: ]I[ :::: /
Administrative requests to: : ::::::: ]] [[ ::::::: :
listserv@msuacad.morehead-st.edu ::: ]] [[ :::
''::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::''
Postings to: ::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
atavachron@msuacad.morehead-st.edu ::: =a=t=a=v=a=c=h=r=o=n= :::
::: ]]] ]] [[ [[[ :::
For more info, send HELP as the first ,,::]]]]]] ]] [[ [[[[[[::,,
line in e-mail to the listserv above. ::: ]] [[ :::
: :::::: ]] . [[ :::::: :
All opinions expressed herein are / :: ] ::: [ :: \
those of the individual contributors. I I
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tour Dates for Japan, Australia and more are available!
finger preston@msuacad.morehead-st.edu for the most current itinerary
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion Digest
Number 148
Saturday, 29 April 1995
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Atavachron Digest Number 147
(none)
Gary Husband
Play White Boy!
Elitists
Re: Play White Boy!
Re: Elitists
Elitist: hoisted by his own petard
Re: Elitists
Re: Elitist: hoisted by his own petard
Re: the unknown David Gilmour
PM Interview-Guitar World-May 85 (fwd)
Re: the unknown David Gilmour
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 16:46:38 -0700
From: rpeck@pure.com (Ray Peck)
Subject: Atavachron Digest Number 147
>From: Malcolm Humes
>Subject: the unknown David Gilmour
>Date: Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:14:59 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Saw David Torn's solo set the othernight in San Francisco, a good
>set, followed by Trilok Gurtu's band. There's been some mention on
>Usenet recently of Gilmour asking he's the Floyd dude. Nope. But
>he was the standout of the Gurtu set for me aside from Trilok's
>amazing percussion. Thought I'd menion it here because Gilmour's
>guitar style seemed to bear some obvious Holdsworth influences,
>but in a way that I found refreshing.
Rats, I missed meeting Malcolm again! I too thought parts of Gilmore
(note spelling correction)'s was very early-Holdsworthian. Fewer
parts were also stolen John Scofield (particularly one piece, which
for a couple minutes sounded *just like* Sco).
Gilmore plays with the MBASE crowd (Steve Coleman, et. al.). I've
also heard that he's playing Yoshi's with Don Byron next week.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:13:21 +1000
From: Michael Ibrahim
Subject: (none)
[Moderator's note: Reformatted to less that 80 chars/line (sigh). --JP]
> I think it is true that Allan does not accept complements very
> graciously -- not that it's an easy thing to do.
Yeah, tell me about it! I met him last year. When I told him how much I
admired him as a musician, he just got really embarrassed. That made me
feel really bad. This time, if I meet him, I'll try as hard as possible
to avoid talking about him or his music!!
Miko.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 08:15:25 -0700
From: lantz@primenet.com (Bill Lantz)
Subject: Gary Husband
On Thu, 27 Apr 1995 15:06:39 -0700 (PDT)
John Edward Martin Shuford wrote:
>Subject: Holdsworth Tour Dates in US
>I saw Jeff's update of added and cancelled shows, but can anyone tell me
>what the full-scale US tour looks like (specifically, is Allan coming to
>Portland or Seattle)? Also, is there any further indication how serious
>this rift is between Allan and Gary Husband. Finally, has anyone heard
>word of when Gary's solo album is coming out?
I'd like to add Tempe or Phoenix to a hopeful tour stop. As far as Gary, I
met him after the Cobham show a couple of months ago here in Phoenix and had
the chance to ask him about Allan. I was not aware that there was a 'rift'
and he gave me no indication that there was. I simply asked him what Allan
was up to and he said "AH was doing some gigs in Europe". I then asked if
will be working again sometime soon with him and he replied "that is a
possiblity". BTW I was blown away that Gary could play keyboards so well. I
had no idea.
Bill Lantz
lantz@primenet.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Play White Boy!
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 11:38:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: "J John W Combs"
To the one who refered to Allen's "duo" with Jeff Watson; The song he did this
with is called "Play That Funky Music". You will find it on "Guitar Player's"
music album. Allen also also did some "heavy" stuff with Chic Corea on
Shrapnel Records called The Truth In Shred.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 08:53:38 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Elitists
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
*** Reply to note of 04/27/95 15:29
Dan Mick suggests I might be an elitist (I made an earlier post that was
somewhat disparaging of the idea of AH working in the hard rock vein).
I suppose I'd like to plead guilty with an explanation...
I didn't intend to disparage hard rock, rather the idea that AH should work in
that area. I love the man's music, just as it is - I think the tighter rhythms
and simpler harmonies of hard rock would prove restrictive, reducing the
moments of inspiration that we all love in AH's work.
On a more general note, when I was a kid in high school I listened to Deep
Purple, Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, etc, back before anyone invented the heavy
metal classification. At the time we called that stuff hard rock (or heavy
rock). Anyway, one of my earlier jobs was teaching at a high school for street
kids in Vancouver. We had a lounge with a stereo that the students organized.
For about six months I was treated to AC/DC's work incessantly. I found that
when I was forced to listen to hard rock it started to loose its appeal.
Maybe I'll end with another analogy: the suggestion that Holdsworth try hard
rock is like asking Goddard to direct a Laverne and Shirley episode.
Elitist?
Guilty as charged, and unrepentant.
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation
V: 604.389.3503 F:360.7285
CPMANUEL@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 13:12:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bob Lynch
Subject: Re: Play White Boy!
On Fri, 28 Apr 1995, J John W Combs wrote:
> To the one who refered to Allen's "duo" with Jeff Watson; The song he did this
> with is called "Play That Funky Music". You will find it on "Guitar Player's"
> music album. Allen also also did some "heavy" stuff with Chic Corea on
> Shrapnel Records called The Truth In Shred.
>
Huh? Do you mean the Gambale/Varney/Shrapnel/whatever project called
"Truth in Shredding?" Chick isn't on my copy of i, and I wouldn't call it
heavy.
--Bob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 10:42:39 -0700
From: dmick@pongo73.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Subject: Re: Elitists
> From server@msuacad.morehead-st.edu Fri Apr 28 09:33:33 1995
> X-Delivered: at request of dmick on pongo
> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 12:31:50 -0400
> Comment: The Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
> Originator: atavachron@msuacad.morehead-st.edu
> Version: 5.31 -- Copyright (c) 1991, Anastasios Kotsikonas
> From: "Chris Manuel"
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Elitists
>
> To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
>
> *** Reply to note of 04/27/95 15:29
> Dan Mick suggests I might be an elitist (I made an earlier post that was
> somewhat disparaging of the idea of AH working in the hard rock vein).
>
> I suppose I'd like to plead guilty with an explanation...
Well, since you took me so seriously (I guess I should have included a
smiley), let me first say that I was gently chiding rather than attacking.
But since you did, let me put a little thought into a response.
> I didn't intend to disparage hard rock, rather the idea that AH should work in
> that area. I love the man's music, just as it is - I think the tighter rhythms
> and simpler harmonies of hard rock would prove restrictive, reducing the
> moments of inspiration that we all love in AH's work.
I understand. There's a framework where styles flourish. However, I
suspect that AH is flexible enough and technician enough to find
innovation even in more limited styles. (How much more structurally
limited can you get than blues, for example, and yet listen to the
innovation that happens there?...)
> On a more general note, when I was a kid in high school I listened to Deep
> Purple, Black Sabbath, Uriah Heep, etc, back before anyone invented the heavy
> metal classification. At the time we called that stuff hard rock (or heavy
> rock). Anyway, one of my earlier jobs was teaching at a high school for street
> kids in Vancouver. We had a lounge with a stereo that the students organized.
> For about six months I was treated to AC/DC's work incessantly. I found that
> when I was forced to listen to hard rock it started to loose its appeal.
For you. I understand that too. Some kinds of music that I know are difficult
to play and worth admiration, I just can't stand to listen to. But that's
not the music's problem.
I prefer to say "I can't listen to this kind of music" and offer explanations
as to why I don't like it rather than dismiss it, is all.
I also understand that you can't justify every point you ever make, or
else you'd never get to actually say anything. :-)
> Maybe I'll end with another analogy: the suggestion that Holdsworth try hard
> rock is like asking Goddard to direct a Laverne and Shirley episode.
Presumably you mean Jean-Luc Godard, and are trying to say in another
venue that "the tops in his field wouldn't bother with common popular
entertainment". It happens all the time, and some wonderful things
result. The Dead White European Male Composers
those bastards! What right do they have to veneration?
wrote popular music. Shakespeare wrote for the rowdy lower-class
theater. Wonderful things happen when actual thought enters popular
entertainment, not the least of which is that great talents get
exposed to a wider audience, which tends to increase the Common Good,
IMO. Also, just displacing some of Sturgeon's 90%-crap is a good
thing, too.
> Elitist?
>
> Guilty as charged, and unrepentant.
>
> Chris Manuel
> BC Systems Corporation
> V: 604.389.3503 F:360.7285
> CPMANUEL@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 14:02:13 PDT
From: "Chris Manuel"
Subject: Elitist: hoisted by his own petard
To: ATAVACHR--INTERNET atavachron@msuacad
Dan writes: "if you mean ... Godard ..."
Caught. If I'm to be an unrepentant elitist I better get my higher culture
references spelled correctly, hadn't I?
Of course I could pretend that I meant Goddard, the father of modern rocketry
but then the analogy would have been really obscure.
Anyway, if hard rock works for you and you've looked at other cultural
possibilities, and made the informed choice then: COOL!
Later...
Chris Manuel
BC Systems Corporation
V: 604.389.3503 F:360.7285
CPMANUEL@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: Elitists
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 14:10:21 -0700 (PDT)
> I understand. There's a framework where styles flourish. However, I
> suspect that AH is flexible enough and technician enough to find
> innovation even in more limited styles. (How much more structurally
> limited can you get than blues, for example, and yet listen to the
> innovation that happens there?...)
>
> Presumably you mean Jean-Luc Godard, and are trying to say in another
> venue that "the tops in his field wouldn't bother with common popular
> entertainment". It happens all the time, and some wonderful things
> result. The Dead White European Male Composers
>
> those bastards! What right do they have to veneration?
>
> wrote popular music. Shakespeare wrote for the rowdy lower-class
> theater. Wonderful things happen when actual thought enters popular
> entertainment, not the least of which is that great talents get
> exposed to a wider audience, which tends to increase the Common Good,
> IMO. Also, just displacing some of Sturgeon's 90%-crap is a good
> thing, too.
I don't think Holdsworth himself is an elitist. Otherwise, he
would not have recorded with that Night Ranger guy, Level 42,
and others. However there are some areas of music with which he
would rather not involve himself. I remember a feature on him where
someone was telling him what a sellout George Benson was. Allan's
response was that he could see both sides of the issue; on the one
hand is artistic fulfillment and on the other is the need to provide
for one's family. I guess what Allan is saying is that while he
wouldn't mind making tons more money he just can't bring himself
to do what Benson does - crooning soft adult contemporary tunes.
He'd rather find another job like selling guitars or fixing bikes
than do that.
--
Paolo Valladolid
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 15:45:19 -0700
From: dmick@pongo73.West.Sun.COM (Dan Mick)
Subject: Re: Elitist: hoisted by his own petard
Chris Manuel was saying:
> Dan writes: "if you mean ... Godard ..."
>
> Caught. If I'm to be an unrepentant elitist I better get my higher culture
> references spelled correctly, hadn't I?
I'm an assh^H^H^H^H idiot that way, but also I had to go look it up,
'cause I'm not that familiar with all possible directors...
> Of course I could pretend that I meant Goddard, the father of modern rocketry
> but then the analogy would have been really obscure.
>
> Anyway, if hard rock works for you and you've looked at other cultural
> possibilities, and made the informed choice then: COOL!
My point is, it's certainly possible for *both* to work, and even for people
who are very very good in one area. Which addresses Paolo's point that
AH is not "elitist" (I deliberately chose that inflammatory word to start
the discussion; I actually doubt Chris is the Great Satan).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: Re: the unknown David Gilmour
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 18:35:11 -0700 (PDT)
Thanks Malcolm for that interesting report. Sounds like another side
of Gilmore I haven't heard yet. I just have his recordings as a member
of Steve Coleman & The Five Elements and Strata Institute (a sort
of supergroup of MBASE players) where Gilmore sticks to clean,
funky stacatto lines and never uses distortion/overdrive.
--
Paolo Valladolid
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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|for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: pvallado@waynesworld.UCSD.EDU (Paolo Valladolid)
Subject: PM Interview-Guitar World-May 85 (fwd)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 1995 19:03:56 -0700 (PDT)
We've heard about how Allan digs Pat Metheny. Apparently the
feeling is mutual. The article excerpt below was seen on the
Pat Metheny mailing list...
Forwarded message:
> From: James Green
> Cc: pat-meth@gilman.com
> Subject: PM Interview-Guitar World-May 85
>
> Guitar World, Vol 6, No. 3, May 1985, pgs 26-33
>
> PAT METHENY: Classic to the Core
>
> No tricks, no fads, just straight-ahead bebop on a happy groove thing.
>
> by Peter Mengaziol
>
> another one of my favorites. He's got that same thing. I love Alan
> Holdsworth. He's brilliant and he's got the thing that you hear people
> imitating all the time but that nobody can do. The other thing I dig
> about him is that he's just fearless and I love to hear fearlessness in
> music. I feel the same way about Adrian Belew. When I hear him I'm
--
Paolo Valladolid
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 95 23:31:06 -0500
From: uchima@fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Subject: Re: the unknown David Gilmour
Malcolm Humes wrote:
> Saw David Torn's solo set the othernight in San Francisco, a good
> set,
Saw him here in Chicago about a week ago. I have to say that I like his new
CD _Tripping Over God_ (which covers basically the same material) better than
the live show I saw. To be fair, I think he may have been having equipment/PA
problems. The live show almost felt like I was watching him tinkering with
his rig in his basement or something -- very intimate, and *interesting* in a
way, but I think the music came across much better on CD.
> followed by Trilok Gurtu's band. There's been some mention on
> Usenet recently of Gilmour asking he's the Floyd dude. Nope. But
> he was the standout of the Gurtu set for me aside from Trilok's
> amazing percussion.
Yeah, and the fact that he played the entire time squatting on the floor made
it even *more* amazing. Does he always do that? Really neat interplay
between Gurtu and the keyboard player too...
> Thought I'd menion it here because Gilmour's
> guitar style seemed to bear some obvious Holdsworth influences,
> but in a way that I found refreshing. His style mixed a lot of
> funky wah guitar with blistering AH-ish riffing, sometimes within
> the same piece of music!
I caught the Holdsworth influence as well. He also played bits that reminded
me of Wayne Krantz, and some of the music even seemed to be kind of in a Steve
Morse / Dregs vein. Gilmore sure seems capable of shifting gears to cover a
wide range of styles...
> I don't recall Allan using a wah much if ever,
> so I wouldn't say that Gilmour came off as a Holdsworth clone really.
Agreed.
> He also balanced the riffs and wah with some decently grungy crimsonoid
> dark chords. While it was the "Crazy Saints" tour I'm not sure how
> much of the band was the same as on the Crazy Saints cd (Zawinul
> wasn't tehre for he concert.)
The band I saw was the same lineup as his new CD, _Believe_ (which I bought
after the show). In contrast to Torn, I have to say that I liked Gurtu's live
set much better than the CD -- the CD seems to lack some of the energy that
the live show had.
> Must say that Gurtu's set was the most diverse and dynamic fusion
> concert I've seen in ages, and he's probably the most impressive
> percussionist I've seen live (about 5 times now!). David Gilmour
> rounded out the show well, overshadowing the bassist and keyboard
> player, and I'm certain some of you folks would enjoy hearing him.
Yeah... now I'm really gonna have to check out those Lost Tribe albums; my
brother just gave me a tape of some Lost Tribe stuff that I haven't had a
chance to listen to yet. Damn! I suspect there'll be more CDs to add to my
ever lengthening "to buy" list...
> Just got a copy of Gongzilla, I'll probably post a review once I digest
> it.
Listening to it as I write this, as a matter of fact! I received it less than
a week after sending a check to LOLO records; pretty good turnaround! Cool
CD, even if Allan *is* only on 4 of the 11 tracks. :)
To the person who wanted to hear Allan doing some "hard rock": Just listen to
the opening track of _Suffer_, and try to convinve me that it isn't "hard
rock"! Speaking of other guitarists sounding sort of like Allan -- anyone
else here think that Bon Lozaga's been listening to Allan a lot lately?
Especially on the tracks "Mezzanine" and "Hip-Hopnosis".
Only track on this CD that really doesn't do anything for me is "Senna". It
just doesn't seem to fit...
> - malcolm
-- Mike Uchima
-- uchima@fnal.fnal.gov
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