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Atavachron Digest 2/93
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 93 02:15:04 EDT
From: atavachron@morekypr
Subject: Atavachron Digest #42
To: Jeff Preston
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion List
Volume 2, Number 42
Thursday February 18th, 1993
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Where's Dat Innerview?
Allan's California itinerary (repost)
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Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 23:08:19 -0500
From: wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad)
Subject: Where's Dat Innerview?
Some of you are probably wondering where this mythical AH interview
is. Sorry for the delay, but my life is considerably out of control
at the moment.... I should have it transcribed and posted by the end
of the month.
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Anil Prasad | "anyhow cow and many cows floating upside
----------------------------| down mao on tao brown cow how now"
wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca | -- e.e. goings
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 93 02:06:12 EDT
From: PRESTON@morekypr.bitnet
Subject: Allan's California itinerary (repost)
For those of you who may have missed this the first time...
Here is the touring itinerary for Allan Holdsworth for February,
1993. This information comes from a fax sent to me by Akira Yada of
Arrow Field Productions on January 8th. I attempted earlier this week
to confirm these dates, but no one has not returned my call. I would
suggest that anyone planning to attend any of these dates *call the
venue beforehand* to confirm the date and to inquire on ticket
availability.
The band will be Steve Hunt, Skuli Sverrisson and Chad Wackerman
on these dates.
Date City Venue
------------------------------------------------------------
Thu Feb 18 San Diego, CA Belly Up
Fri Feb 19 Santa Ana, CA Rhythm Cafe
Sat Feb 20 Los Angeles, CA Roxy
Sun Feb 21 Long Beach, CA Bogart's
Tue Feb 23 San Luis Obispo, CA To Be Announced
Wed Feb 24 Santa Cruz, CA Kuumbwa Jazz Center
Thu Feb 25 San Francisco, CA Great American Music Hall
Fri Feb 26 San Jose, CA Cabaret Club
Sat Feb 27 San Rafael, CA New Georges
Sun Feb 28 Sacramento, CA Cattle Club
I'd also like to welcome our newest bunch of subscribers and
encourage them to jump right into the discussion. Granted, there
isn't much discussion going on at the moment (*grin*), but if last
year is any kind of indicator, February and March are the slowest
months on Atavachron.
For the curious: We now have 122 subscribers in 8 countries.
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston =*= Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= atavachron@morekypr.morehead-st.edu =*=*=*=
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 93 04:30:02 EDT
From: atavachron@morekypr
Subject: Atavachron Digest #43
To: Jeff Preston
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion List
Volume 2, Number 43
Monday February 22nd, 1993
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Recordings with Skuli Sverrison
Interview-a-comin'!
HOLDSWORTH INTERVIEW pt. 1 of 2
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Date: Thu, 18 Feb 93 08:27:05 +0100
From: hald@id.dth.dk (Bjarne G. Hald)
Subject: Recordings with Skuli Sverrison
Hi,
Can anyone point me to recordings with Skuli Sverrison. I first saw
him together with Holdsworth in Copenhagen about a year back and had
never heard of him before, but I really like what he's doing.
Cheers,
Bjarne
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 01:13:13 -0500
From: wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad)
Subject: Interview-a-comin'!
You'll be seeing the Allan Holdsworth interview very soon. It took
over eighty dollars, endless phone calls and over eight hours to
transcribe and put together.
The reason I'm posting this is to just say that if you enjoy the
interview and are interested in defraying my costs, feel free to
drop me a line!
You'd pay $5-8 for a guitar mag to get an interview with AH even
1/10th as long...
Anyway, that's the last I'll mention of it.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Anil Prasad | "Rock journalism is people who can't write
----------------------------| interviewing people who can't talk for people
wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca | who can't read." -- Frank Zappa (1980)
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 01:16:49 -0500
From: wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad)
Subject: HOLDSWORTH INTERVIEW pt. 1 of 2
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ALLAN HOLDSWORTH INTERVIEW by Anil Prasad
Part One of Two
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Copyright 1993 Anil Prasad. (Ottawa, Ontario, Canada)
All rights reserved.
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Please do not post this interview to any other electronic
information services, newsgroups, FTP sites, etc. This interview
is fresh off the word processor. For now, this is an exclusive
posting to the Internet Atavachron Allan Holdsworth mailing list.
If you see this interview or portions of it appear ANYWHERE else,
please drop me a line at wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca immediately.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Many thanks to Jeff Preston for his help in getting this
interview, and also to Steve Monroe for his support. Thanks to
the many people that submitted questions as well. Hopefully,
you'll find a few answered here.
Finally, NO thanks to Restless Records who dazzled me with their
ignorance, unprofessional behaviour and remarkable ability to
avoid returning phone calls and faxes. Have a good bankruptcy!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A conversation with Allan Holdsworth is the polar opposite of
listening to his music. He doesn't express himself very well, and
the conversation occasionally tends to drift off topic from
time to time. He is a very thoughtful person to speak to though,
and it's very easy to sense how deeply he cares about making
uncompromising music.
We hit a wide range of topics during the course of this very long
interview (about two hours). I purposely avoided equipment
questions. You can buy Guitar Player/Guitar World/Guitar For The
Practising Fisherman/Guitarist Of Fortune/Guitars And Ammo etc.
for that sort of interview. Also, I know Allan makes himself
available after concerts, and is pleased to answer questions like
that for fans.
Holdsworth is a man deeply discontented with the state of his
career and the music industry in general. Musicians of his
calibre and commitment stick out like a sore thumb in today's
fast food music industry. Soap, deodorant, processed cheese,
music, wart remover... it's all the same thing these days for
the monolithic music machines. He's been hit with many blows that
confirm this sad state of affairs. It seemed painful for him
to talk about some of those aspects, but from what I could tell,
discussing them was also a minor catharsis for him.
Regardless of Holdsworth's interview skills, it's all
irrelevant. A very wise man once said "Let the music do the
talking." Allan Holdsworth does. What else matters?
This interview took place January 15/1993. Remember, you're
reading a verbatim transcript with very little polishing. Hope
you enjoy it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
AP: Well, it's too bad Restless couldn't get their act together for
scheduling this interview.
AH: I know, it's a problem. I'm having a real problem with them at
the moment. The really big issue is that they have all the albums.
AP: Are you trying to get the rights back?
AH: No, I've only just given them all to them! [laughs] It'd be
really difficult for me to do that, impossible in fact.
AP: Did you sell them the rights outright, or did you license them?
AH: No, they were licensed in the original deal to Enigma which was
bought by Capitol. All of the rights reverted to Restless from all
of the acts Capitol dropped which we were included in. So they got
the catalog back automatically, and I got one back from Relativity
which I gave to them as well, so they'd have the whole catalog. I
thought it would be good to have the whole catalog on one label.
But Restless seems to be really lame. As far as I know, I've seen
the album in the stores. There's absolutely no publicity at all
though. The only publicity I've seen have been displays done by the
stores themselves.
AP: Did you realize that "Wardenclyffe Tower" has not been released
in Canada?
AH: Yeah. I'm surprised it's not out there as an import.
AP: It is, but in very limited quantities and at ludicrously high
prices.
AH: I did some deals in Europe with separate labels and a small
French label and it was unbelievable. He was really disappointed
because Restless were able to get it out in Europe as an import
before he was able to get it out as a domestic release.
AP: Stores have been importing it themselves in Canada and the
going price is about $30.
AH: Geez, that's expensive.
AP: That's the going rate for a U.S. import here. I hope the
situation corrects itself.
AH: I wish there was a way you know... the way the deal is set up
is that Restless is supposed to release it in the U.S.A., Canada
and Mexico, but they haven't struck a deal with anyone...
AP: Let's talk about "Wardenclyffe Tower". It's a great album in my
opinion.
AH: Well thanks!
AP: How do you feel about it? I understand it's the first album
you've really been happy with as far as your playing goes.
AH: Well actually no, I think the albums with the exception of
"Road Games" were pretty much representative of that point in time.
But the problem I have with "Wardenclyffe Tower" is that the album
was recorded a long time before it was mixed. It was recorded over
a year prior to releasing it and the reason is that we recorded it
and the scheduling was such that I could never get to mix it. I
started to mix it one time and I wasn't happy with the mixes so I
stopped and we went out on the road. I came back and tried it
again. I usually go to Front Page in Costa Mesa and I mixed it
there pretty quick. I thought it was going ok, and then when I
listened to the mixes I wasn't happy with them, so I didn't release
it. I was gonna do it again, but because of the amount of time that
had gone by, I started to get really fed up. I was getting very
tired of it. So I thought, having played the mixes to my friends
and the guys, to release the mixes that I had done at Front Page,
which is how the album is now. But I'm not 100% happy with the way
the mixes are now.
AP: What do you think's wrong with them?
AH: When you go to a new room... for example "Secrets," I mixed
that album at home and I spent a lot of time on the mixing. It's
different when you do it at home, you don't have to watch the
clock. So obviously I can take time, take longer to make decisions.
AP: Why didn't you mix it at home?
AH: I decided to go to the studio at that time with "Wardenclyffe
Tower" because I didn't have my home set up working because we had
just moved. So, otherwise I would have tried to do it at home
again, but I didn't have a setup going at the house. We moved
everything and I lost the setup I had, so I had to start again.
AP: Do you think it's a successful album in terms of your playing?
AH: I think it's ok... [really apathetically], I think it is what
it is. I think it's pretty good. The thing that lets it down for me
is just that I would have liked to mix a couple of tracks again,
not everything.
AP: You don't sound too enthused Allan!
AH: Well, I like some of the music on it. I thought all the guys
played really great on it. As I said, the only thing that let it
down for me is the mix.
AP: What were you going for when you first conceptualized the
album?
AH: I never really have a concept for an album as a whole. Whenever
I'm working on a piece of music, I'll just be working on that. I'm
never thinking about a concept for an album, I just think about
writing tunes and trying to find a balance between the tunes to
make up an album. Usually, when I come up with an album title, and
this has been true with every album I've ever done, I don't think
of it is as a whole. Sonically, and making sure the balance between
types of tracks, and the running order, that's important, but I
didn't do it to sort of... geez. I can't explain it... [long pause]
Ask me that question again and I'll try to answer it again!
[laughs]
AP: Ok, what were you going for...
AH: Sorry! I just woke up. [laughs] The titles of the albums have
always been related to one piece or one song. I take one piece of
music and say that's a good title, so I'll use that. And then the
album ends up being called that. "Secrets" was the same, just that
one track, I liked the title, so I used that. So it wasn't a
concept for the whole record, so I balance the pieces of music in
a record to make it a whole. I never have an album title based on
a concept.
AP: Ok, well what I actually meant, I guess I didn't come across
too clearly... What I meant was, musically, did you achieve what
you envisioned?
AH: Yeah, pretty much. I think each piece of music turned out the
way I wanted them to, except with the way they were mixed, which is
very important to me. They weren't so bad that they weren't
recognizable. There were only five points that I would have
changed.
AP: I've spoken to many fans, and nobody seems to notice any
problems really.
AH: Well, that's good! When people hear it... well, in fact that's
what happened to me. I carried a tape of mixes around that I had,
even though I started out saying "Geez, I shouldn't have done that,
I should have done this." After I spent time listening to the tape,
I got used to it and that was one of the decisions I made about not
going back to do it again. I got so used to hearing it as it
actually was that I couldn't... I didn't know if it was gonna be
worth doing it again. I like to work constantly on something until
it's the way I want it and release it and never worry about it
again. I'm not very good at working to a deadline, in fact I'm
horrible at it, that's what's going on right now, I've got this
stuff I'm supposed to do by a certain date. To me, that whole
concept doesn't work. They're gonna take as long as they're gonna
take. I can't guarantee it. You might just get one thing that
sounds really good right away and it's done and you get to another
track and you just can't get what you want out it.
AP: Composition-wise, "Wardenclyffe Tower" strikes me as an
extension of "Secrets." Do you agree?
AH: Well, probably. I think every one of them has been an extension
of the previous one, or has grown out of the previous one.
AP: How do you see it in relation to "Secrets?"
AH: Well, I think it's quite different. I think it's a little less
aggressive in a way. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not,
it's just the way it turned out you know. [laughs] I'm already
working on stuff for the next album. Obviously the problem with
"Wardenclyffe Tower" is the amount of time between recording it and
releasing it... I like to get it so they're fairly quick, usually
when we start recording it, I work on it until it's mixed and it's
out, so there's not a huge difference between when it's recorded
and when it comes out. Now that I think about it, that happened on
"Secrets" as well. I got involved in a tour and other projects at
the same time, and I wasn't able to finish it when I wanted to. I
don't know, it's hard for me to say, it's hard to compare them.
They sound different, the music is different. Hopefully they have
something that's the same about them, the thread of evidence of one
mind or something, but I don't know...
AP: It seems to be that it has a more spontaneous and live feel to
it than "Secrets."
AH: That's good!
AP: What do you think?
AH: I didn't notice that. If other people perceive that, then
that's always a good thing. I try, even when we end up overdubbing
things, I try to make it sound live. Sometimes you can overdub
something and it might be correct, but it just might not feel right
since it didn't happen at the same time. So sometimes I'll make it
sound like it really belongs there. Even if it's not exactly what
I wanted. So, if someone perceives that, then that's a good thing.
AP: I'm intrigued by the title "Wardenclyffe Tower".
AH: Yeah, well. Do you know anything about that particular tower
and Nikola Tesla?
AP: I know a little about Tesla, yeah.
AH: The thing was, I always intrigued really when I had the big
book with his patents and everything. He seemed to be a guy who was
doing things, being really creative and it seemed he wasn't in the
right time to be doing what he was doing! [laughs] Although what he
did contributed to everyone and everyone benefitted, not many
people actually know he was responsible for all the things that he
did. When I started working on that track "Wardenclyffe Tower," I
had this idea of this guy in his workshop, so when I finished that
piece, I thought well, that would be a good title for the whole
record.
AP: Are you often inspired to write music that way? Do you need
that sort of catalyst?
AH: I set out to write something. I quite often start out with an
idea I have and work with that. With "Wardenclyffe Tower", that was
definitely a concept I had, creating an imaginary backdrop for this
guy.
AP: Tell me how you go about representing a story in music without
lyrics.
AH: It's only perceived obviously from my own eyes and ears really.
I just have to hope that whatever I visualize is somehow
transferred to someone else's mind. That's why I've always wanted
to be involved in film music. When I see something, I often hear
something at the same time. So it's just a matter of putting it
together. It's almost as if I'm doing an imaginary film. I think
all of my music is kind of like that. They're almost like imaginary
film things. Not so much the soloing aspect of it, that goes into
another thing, trying to be creative in an improvising way, but the
composition aspect comes from the pictures in my head. So, I was
thinking about what I know about Nikola Tesla which isn't that
much, and just try and visualize something and then just put the
music to the pictures of what I see, and that's what I do usually.
AP: As you said, Tesla contributed to the world as a whole, sold
the rights to his inventions for a meagre sum and received little
recognition. Do you see any parallels with that and your own
career?
AH: It's possible, but I wasn't thinking about it like that. I
wasn't using it as something where I could say, I'm doing something
and no-one is taking any notice. It wasn't like that at all. If it
was, it was some sort of a coincidence. I wasn't concerned with
myself. I was just trying to write some music around what my
imagination was doing with regards to Nikola Tesla.
AP: Steve Hunt plays a much larger role on "Wardenclyffe Tower"
than Secrets.
AH: I think it depends how long someone's been around in the band.
Also, I was using the Synthaxe a lot more back then, which almost
negates the role the keyboard player has. After all, he's gonna be
doing something similar with textures. Back then with the Synthaxe,
I was able to do that on my own, and that's basically what
happened. And this last album, I only used the Synthaxe on two
tracks, I didn't use it much.
AP: Why did you decide to abandon it?
AH: There's a number of reasons, but the most important reason is
that I was getting to a point where I was going to abandon playing
the guitar altogether and only play the Synthaxe. I thought it was
closer to what I wanted to do musically, in my head, sonically, the
whole thing. With the Synthaxe, I could use it as a wind
instrument, I used to use it with a breath controller, I could use
it as the wind instrument I had always wanted to play since I was
a kid. I didn't have to deal with distortion and shaping a
distorted guitar sound into something musical, which is a real
challenge. It's been one of the problems I have all of the time
with the guitar, I want to make it sound more like a horn, but at
the same time, the fact that you have to use any sort of distortion
to get sustain is a kind of catch-22. You have to use something you
don't want to use to get something that you want to use. I didn't
have any of those problems with the Synthaxe, it was really clear
and really easy. The fact that is has the keys as well as the
strings, that was a stroke of genius for me. What I got afraid of
is that I tried to keep in contact with them [Synthaxe Inc.] about
any future things that they wanted to implement and Ideas that I
had about modifications and improvements. The barrier broke down
and in the end... right as it is, this moment, they don't exist at
all. There's maybe two or three guys on the whole planet that could
probably fix one. That got to be a really dangerous position to be
in. If I quit guitar and got rid of them all and played only
synthaxe right now, then I'd be in real bad shape right now. And my
worst fear came true, because a couple of months ago I sold both of
my Synthaxes and thought "Well geez, I just have to get rid of
them." And now over the last few weeks I've realized that I really
miss them. I hooked up with this guy that bought one, he never uses
it, he inherited some money and spent it on a Synthaxe and he
decided he didn't want to use it, so he knew that I played it and
he tracked me down and he offered to sell it to me. I borrowed it
from him to try it and there were two bad frets on the neck and I
called some of the people that used to work at Synthaxe and try to
find out what the possibilities of getting this malfunction fixed
were and I'm still waiting to hear from one of the tech guys. So
you can see, that's a scary situation to be in if that was the only
instrument I played!
AP: So it boils down to a lack of support then?
AH: Yeah and the lack of support simply boils down to the fact that
there were so few people playing it that it was a complete disaster
for the company. There was no way they could continue to make it.
Even though, I still believe... [really passionately] I know it to
be true in my heart that it was the only one, the only guitar
synthesizer that was ever built that really works to me, its just
that unfortunately it behaves so unlike guitar that they
[guitarists in general] don't want to deal with it. They don't want
to get past that little threshold you have to jump over to get into
it. Most guitarists when they get a synth, well this is a
generalization of course, they pick one up immediately and they try
to get a synthesizer trying to play a guitar sound which is
completely insane to me! I mean, I can't think of anything more
ridiculous. The whole idea for me was to get outside the realm of
guitar and start doing other stuff. But that might be the thing
that's true of guitar players. Guitar players in general are narrow
as far as just looking at an instrument. A lot of players don't
even listen to other instruments, they get so wrapped up in the
guitar. I know that to be true, because of the amount of guitar
players that I know that are like that. Sometimes they don't hear
the music, they only hear the sounds. Anyway, so that's where it is
with the Synthaxe at the moment, so that's why I stopped using it.
AP: That must be a really frustrating situation for you.
AH: Well, I started working with a new guitar synthesizer
controller made by a guy down here named Harvey Starr, and the
potential of this one is huge as well! It's a really strange thing,
it's a cross between a keyboard and a guitar, you lay it flat like
a pedal steel, and it has 12 strings, but they're not really
strings at all, they're keys, they're groups of twenty-four keys
times twelve, so it looks like a typewriter, but the problem for me
is that obviously playing that way is upside down for me, and I've
never been able to use my right hand. It's like learning to play a
whole new instrument. Whereas the Synthaxe, I fell right into it,
right away, so I don't think it's going to be a substitution for
me, not that it can't be for someone else.
AP: Is going back to regular guitars a limiting thing for you?
AH: Oh yeah, yeah. [really sounding depressed] The way that I could
make a note loud and then soft and then loud and then soft is
completely impossible with a guitar. Sure, you could use a volume
pedal but it's not the sound, it's not the way I want to hear it.
If you play a violin and you pull a note and then you can make soft
and add vibrato, take some off and then make it bright again and
hard, just one note. Just the way you can shape notes. You can
shape notes on guitar, I've worked really hard at doing that, but
it's really limited compared to what I could do on a Synthaxe. The
perception from someone else's point of view is probably different,
but being the guy that's trying to create the music, I know that
instrument works. It really worked for me, so it's kind of sad that
it's ended.
AP: That's really too bad.
AH: I'm gonna try all I can to get this one particular Synthaxe
going and over a period of the next few years, I might try to see
if I can round up a few more used ones. I should never have sold
the ones I had, it was a big mistake. I had two and I bought the
second one quite a number of years after the first one, just so I
would have a spare. Each one had a spare console, cuz the console
had a lot of the memory stuff in there and they failed from time to
time, so it was good to have a spare one for each.
AP: How many Synthaxes are out there?
AH: A thousand maybe. Not very many. There's probably that many,
but not much more I would think. A lot of studios bought them in
the beginning. I've seen them sitting around in places.
AP: I want to talk to you about "Oneiric Moor". Is that indicative
of the solo guitar album you want to do next?
AH: Not really. Well obviously, partially. That was just an
improvisation with two parts. I just recorded fifteen minutes of
improvisation, listened to them and picked one I liked and then I
played another part along with it spontaneously and that was that
piece. So the idea I have for the next album wasn't so much
spontaneity, but compositions, and also to use all these big
guitars I've got at the moment. I've been experimenting with
extending the range of the guitar. I have a little piccolo one and
three baritone guitars.
AP: Can you explain what's special about Baritone guitars for a
non-musician?
AH: The difference between a bass guitar and a guitar is that a
bass guitar is much smaller for the notes it produces than a guitar
for the notes it produces, physically. The baritone guitars for me,
have an extremely long scale, they're two to four inches longer
than the biggest bass guitar. One is a 36" scale, the other is a
38" scale. It's like if you can imagine a normal guitar and you
extend the neck downwards from that note, E, the lowest note, in
other words, when you play an E on the baritone guitar, the string
will be the same length as it is as on E on a regular guitar. I
didn't want it to sound a bass guitar, I wanted it to sound like
guitar, but extend the range and that's exactly what it sounds
like. Having a really long string like that adds all these
overtones and harmonics and obviously I use the same gauge strings,
because you're just taking that scale and making it longer. It's
not like you're trying to take a short scale and tuning the note
down low by putting on a thick string or something. This is using
the same concept as the 25.5" scale guitar, just extended downward.
AP: How will that allow you to expand your realm of musical
possibilities?
AH: It gives me more range. It just extends the range outside
normal for the guitar. That's all I can get from it really. They're
very difficult to play, the biggest one is anyway. The first fret
is almost two inches wide! [laughs] It's not the easiest thing to
get around, but it sounds so good it's worth it. They really have
a good sound. I used the b flat one on "Sphere of Innocence," it
goes down low, that whole solo is the baritone guitar. I used the
short baritone guitar, that only goes down to C on "Zarabeth". That
one is actually quite playable because it's only a few more inches
longer than a regular guitar so you can hear a difference in sound
in the bottom of the instrument, but it hasn't reached the point of
uncomfortableness to play, so it's a usable instrument.
AP: You've said your playing has progressed considerably since
recording "Wardenclyffe Tower." How so?
AH: Did I say that?
AP: Yeah, in the February issue of Guitar Player.
AH: Well, what I was trying to say is that I always feel over the
past few years anyway, it seems I make more progress in a period of
a year than I did over a period of four or five years a few years
ago. Just cuz it seems the more you learn, the more you don't know.
I thought I was talking about the sound of "Wardenclyffe Tower," I
don't remember saying that actually.
AP: They probably misquoted you...
AH: I think what I was trying to say is that as long as I can make
some kind of progress, even a small amount, then it's worth it. I
mean, progress for me, the music is separate from my own playing
and soloing. I'm more enjoying writing tunes than before, it seems
to be getting more difficult than before, but at the same time the
tunes seem to be more satisfying when I get to the end of one.
[laughs] I just keep going. It's hard to talk about, it's something
that you keep trying to do.
AP: You've received an incredible amount of acclaim throughout your
career. How do handle all of the adulation you receive, and how do
you reconcile that with the fact that you're not a high sales or
high profile artist?
AH: I really don't give it too much thought. Ultimately the person
who's involved in it, is the person that knows. So if someone comes
up to me after a bad gig and says "we thought you were great," I
really think it's wonderful that people like it! But it doesn't
change anything for me, it doesn't make me feel any differently
about what I'm doing, because I know what it is I'm trying to do.
So I don't really worry about it too much. But on the other side of
it, it can be frustrating sometimes, but it's not more frustrating
for me than it is for a lot of people, when you're trying to do
something that doesn't have an outlet. I don't see it as being
anybody's fault but the media really. Most people suffer from that,
unless you're involved in something really mainstream and something
that gets played on the radio you're going to run into that
problem. The media is really the controlling factor. If no-one can
ever hear anything, there's no way you convince someone. If you've
never tasted an orange, you'd never know if you liked one! I see it
like that. With the radio stations and record companies, the record
companies aren't really interested in signing something for musical
reasons, they just want something they can sell a lot of. It's the
same across the world. How far do you go to find a really cool,
little French restaurant, but you can find a McDonald's on every
street corner. It's the same thing. It's becoming more and more
difficult for the little guys to keep going, but I think it's worth
it. As long as you do what you believe in, I just couldn't see any
other way to do it. I mean it wouldn't feel right to do something
else. Because I started out in music as an accident and a lot of
people come into music deliberately, hoping to become a
professional musician to make money. I came into it as a hobby, to
do something for myself and the fact that I ended up becoming a
professional musician was an accident, it wasn't a deliberate
attempt. It just happened. All I was doing was the same thing, I
never did anything except for a selfish reason, to make me happy,
it gave me something to do with my life. And that's why I'd rather
get a job outside, maybe still involved in music in one way or
another, but do another job than play the kind of music that I
didn't have any interest in. That would be completely pointless.
AP: Does music pay the bills right now?
AH: It does, but it's really difficult and it seems to keep getting
harder and harder. And with a family it becomes more and more
difficult... can you hang on just a minute?
[AH's kids screaming are in the background]
AH: I'm sorry! They were driving me nuts! Even with my finger in my
ear, the only thing I could hear were the screaming kids! [laughs]
AP: Would you like to see your kids involved in music?
AH: Well, if they want to be. I'm not encouraging any of them
really. I'm not trying to keep them away from it either. I'm not
going to push them one way or the other. Obviously, if I see a
spark and it looks like they want to do something I'll help them.
I'm not going to push them.
AP: How old are your kids?
AH: 13, 11 and 7.
AP: Do they know who you are and what you do?
AH: Vaguely. [laughs]
AP: Do they like your music?
AH: No, I don't think they like it very much. Every time I bring a
mix home to listen to they go "Oh, turn that off dad!!!" so I don't
think they do. It was great, the other day, a friend of mine came
around with his son who plays guitar, he's 13 and it was quite
fascinating for my kids cuz it turns out he's a real fan, and so
when my son Sam asked him "who do you like" and he said "I like
your dad!" That was really strange, that was a first. It was pretty
wild.
AP: Why is Restless completely ignoring you? Compared to a lot of
their crappy, unknown alternative rock acts, you should be a real
commodity to them!
AH: In some ways I am, it's just I don't think they're financially
able or capable to do anything above a certain level. I know what
its like trying to get them to just come up with the budgets for
the albums. It's really, really tough to get anything out of them
at all. In fact, the way it is, I dare say it's like this for a lot
of people, but it's almost impossible for me to make an album for
the amount of money they want to pay. I am going to move on and try
to get out of it, and find some other label that is willing.. even
if they're unable to spend the money on promotion, if they could at
least pay for the production of a record... if you can't deliver a
record for the amount of money you get paid... I don't earn enough
money from other sources with which to make a record on my own,
otherwise I would because that would be the ultimate, to finance
your own recording and sell it, but I've never achieved that
position. So I'm at the mercy of people like Restless. They've left
me alone like Enigma did, so I don't have any creative
restrictions, but when the money gets so low that it's not
possible... as far I'm concerned, the budget for this next album is
so low that once you've paid the people to play on it, there's no
money left! I don't know how they expect me to go to a studio, and
I don't really want to do the things I've done before when I
started out which was going into a studio after midnight and
working til' 3:00 am and asking all the other guys to do the same
thing. Sure, I'll do it, but I can't ask other people to do that,
and I don't think they should have to do that. We work ridiculous
hours anyway, the last four-five days I've worked twelve to
fourteen hours a day trying to these tracks mixed.
AP: Tracks for what?
AH: I have to record a track for a compilation album that Mike
Mainieri [from the fusion band Steps Ahead] is putting out. It's a
compilation of old Beatles songs. He's got John Abercrombie and a
few other guys on this album. We did a version of "Michelle"
[laughs]. We just finished that off and sent if off to him. Now, I
have two more tracks to do for an extension of "Wardenclyffe Tower"
for Japan. Unlike everywhere else int he world, the import CDs in
Japan are cheaper than the ones they manufacture themselves. So the
only way a Japanese company is interested in taking the album is if
there's something on it that's not on the other ones. So we're
giving them a version of "Wardenclyffe Tower" with two extra tracks
on it.
AP: Really? When's that coming out?
AH: That's what I'm trying to do right now. I've got a little more
recording to do, then I've got these two tracks to mix. Then
there's the NAMM show this weekend, and then I have to have it
delivered and mastered and everything by the 22nd, but I don't
think I'm going to make it! [laughs] [remember, this interview took
place on January 15th!]
AP: That's one crazy schedule.
AH: If it's not ready, it's not ready. It's not a major problem, I
just hate deadlines. I never make them!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
ALLAN HOLDSWORTH INTERVIEW by Anil Prasad
Part One of Two
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 1993 Anil Prasad. (Ottawa, Ontario, Canada)
All rights reserved.
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is fresh off the word processor. For now, this is an exclusive
posting to the Internet Atavachron Allan Holdsworth mailing list.
If you see this interview or portions of it appear ANYWHERE else,
please drop me a line at wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca immediately.
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Date: Mon, 22 Feb 93 04:40:02 EDT
From: atavachron@morekypr
Subject: Atavachron Digest #44
To: Jeff Preston
Atavachron Digest - The Allan Holdsworth Discussion List
Volume 2, Number 44
Monday February 22nd, 1993
TODAY'S TOPICS:
==============
Holdsworth Interview Pt. 2 of 2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 01:19:48 -0500
From: wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca (Anil Prasad)
Subject: Holdsworth Interview Pt. 2 of 2
-----------------------------------------------------------------
ALLAN HOLDSWORTH INTERVIEW by Anil Prasad
Part Two of Two
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 1993 Anil Prasad. (Ottawa, Ontario, Canada)
All rights reserved.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Please do not post this interview to any other electronic
information services, newsgroups, FTP sites, etc. This interview
is fresh off the word processor. For now, this is an exclusive
posting to the Internet Atavachron Allan Holdsworth mailing list.
If you see this interview or portions of it appear ANYWHERE else,
please drop me a line at wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca immediately.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
AP: Your next album completes your Restless contract, right?
AH: Right.
AP: You mentioned that album will come out relatively soon.
AH: I'm gonna deliver it as soon as I can, but as to when they put
it out, it's up to them. But once I deliver it, that's it for me.
So, that's another reason I was thinking about doing the solo
album, something like the "Music For Imaginary Films" record. A
compositional type of record. At the same time, I don't want to
just do that if it's not the right time. I've been working on music
for a new band album, and I want to do that with the existing band,
which is Gary Husband, Steve Hunt and Skuli Skeverson. So,
unfortunately, the money that they're paying me isn't enough for me
to pay all of these guys to do it even though I know they'll work
for nothing, cuz they've done it before. It's just really hard for
me to ask them to do that. So, it's a tough one, shall I do the
band album even though the guys have offered to do it free, or
shall I do the solo album, cuz that's basically all they're paying
for? Either way I'm going to do the best job I can. That's the
other thing, it might be great to hold back on the band album and
give it to another label.
AP: Last time I spoke to you, I suggested you finish up your
Restless contract with a live album so you wouldn't have to waste
any new compositions on them. But you said it was too valuable.
AH: Yeah, there was another album as well. Two concepts. One that
I had started working on with Gordon Beck, an english jazz piano
player, an album of old standards. But I was going to hold back on
that because it seems, by coincidence, everybody in the whole world
is doing an album of standards! [laughs] [are you listening Mike
Stern?] So we decided to hold off on that one. And it might be
something that might help Restless more than they've been helping
me. I thought it might be better for me and the musicians involved
to not give that one to them, and give it to a Japanese company,
someone that's more interested in a specialized product thing.
AP: Why not just give Restless an album of atonal compositions?
[laughs]
AH: Because I don't want to end up doing something I don't want to
do! [really seriously]
AP: I was kidding!
AH: Whatever it is that I do for Restless has to be something I
want to do, so I have to make sure of that fact. Like I said, the
only option I really have is to do a solo record which is something
I've wanted to do for a long time. It's something I was supposed to
do for someone else a long time ago, but it never materialized. It
was essentially an album of imaginary film music. No real band
effort, just basically solo music. At the same time, I don't want
to let the band thing slide and just put out solo records. I really
like working with the group too.
AP: What about the possibility of a live album?
AH: Well, we did a live album, but nobody liked it. We recorded it
in Japan one year and the general consensus was that it wasn't
happening. It'll never come out.
AP: Is that something you'd like to do eventually?
AH: I would like to yeah! Especially with all the bootlegs. In
fact, we were thinking about releasing an official bootleg record.
Since there are so many bootlegs out there, we figured we might as
well give the guys in the band a choice of what nights were ok as
against the ones which weren't. So Gary Husband recorded some gigs
with his DAT player. Some are pretty good too. I mean they're live,
that's the thing I like about them. They're not like the studio-
live albums, in other words, you get a supposedly live album that
sounds like the worst studio album you've heard in your life. That
is definitely something I want to avoid. In fact, the microphone in
the back of the room seems to be a good way to go for me. You
always get that feeling of a live performance. From now on, I think
we're going to carry DAT machines around and recording gigs.
AP: You mentioned you'd like to go with a Japanese company as your
next record label.
AH: Did I say that?
AP: Yeah, last time I talked to you.
AH: There's a Japanese company interested, so that's what I meant
probably. They were interested in doing an album deal, but they
can't right now because I'm still locked into Restless. But that's
why they were willing to do this "Wardenclyffe Tower" thing with
the two extra tracks. I figured, they could start on that and when
the time comes up, I can either go ahead with them or maybe someone
else will be interested.
AP: What Japanese label are we talking about here?
AH: I think it's Polygram.
AP: That's a pretty major label!
AH: My manager's been talking to them, but I can't really talk to
anyone about that stuff right now. [laughs]
AP: You just released a best-of compilation in Japan called "Best
Works" right?
AH: Huh? Of what?
AP: Of your solo music.
AH: No!? Really????? [in utter astonishment]
AP: I just saw some ads for it in European magazines.
AH: You're kidding?????? [completely shocked]
AP: You don't know anything about this?
AH: If you can find out for me, please let me know, there's a
lawyer I know who's pretty good at tracking these things down.
AP: I thought it was an official compilation!
AH: No, but I'm glad you brought it to my attention. So it's called
"Best Works" by Allan Holdsworth?
AP: Yeah.
AH: A compilation record!?!?!? [shellshocked] Do you know which
album tracks are on it?
AP: No, I don't know anything about it. Just that it came out in
Japan only.
AH: Wow, that's amazing. I'll have to call Akira about that. If you
do come across that again, would you get in touch with me?
AP: Sure, I'll do that.
[Since this interview, it was established that "Best Works" was
released on the JIMCO label in Japan. A *NOTORIOUSLY* screwball
label that has a good history of screwing artists over. It's not a
bootleg label, but a semi-major legit label over there! Recently,
they screwed Geoff Downes (from Asia and Yes) over on his release
"Vox Humana" by releasing demos without his permission! Allan and
Akira have been on the case in the last few weeks and the matter
has apparently been taken care of. Sad thing is, it'll probably
become a sought-after collector's item.]
AH: I didn't know anything about it. [He's *REALLY* angry and
emotional at this point] I have to tell you, when you asked me that
question before about the frustration aspect of it... the single
most frustrating thing for me, is to be in a situation where you
can't get a record deal because for whatever reason they won't sign
you up, but the same people will take complete advantage of you by
bootlegging things, putting out other albums. Sony just did that
with that old "Velvet Darkness" album. They re-released it, but
unfortunately, I wasn't able to stop them right away. But they [the
lawyers] stopped them eventually and they're not going to make that
album anymore, because that whole project was a rip-off in the
first place. And to have it re-released now and packaged like a new
album... so those kind of things make me go crazy, they make me
want to tear my hair out.
AP: You had "Velvet Darkness" pulled? I have to buy it then!
[laughs]
AH: No, don't! [laughs] Don't buy it.
AP: I have it on album.
AH: No... it was no good, it was never any good. The way it was
recorded, what happened to the musicians, the whole thing. It was
a complete disaster. It was terrible at that time and that makes it
terrible today. That album was never any good. And it's one thing
to say I'll look back to that old "I.O.U." album and say well, it
sounds pretty old, and maybe I don't like it as much as the old
stuff. But, the fact was that it was what it is then and it was ok
then and everybody accepted that to be the fact at that time, but
that was not true of "Velvet Darkness". That album was never fit to
be released. Nobody got to hear anything they did. I never got a
tape of anything that was recorded. And we were actually rehearsing
in the studio and they were rolling the tape while we were
rehearsing on the premise that we'd be able to keep recording and
also check things out, but that never happened. At the end of that
day, the guy said, "Thanks, see ya!" That's why a lot of those
tunes don't have any endings, they were rehearsals! That was a
complete rip-off by that guy Creed Taylor.
[Incidentally, Creed Taylor is a well-known jazz producer and
label head. He's well respected by many, and well loathed by
similar numbers of people. Frighteningly enough, CTI, his record
label, has just been reactivated through Mesa/Bluemoon. God
know who he's screwing over now...]
AP: Are you getting any royalties from any pressings?
AH: No, none.
AP: Nothing!? Amazing how this business works.
AH: I never saw anything from that. And that's the main reason they
got it stopped. They didn't have a contract, they didn't have any
publishing, they didn't have the rights to anything.
AP: Really? That's incredible!
AH: No! No it's not!!!!! This happens all the time!!
AP: This has happened to you before?
AH: Yeah, all the time. There's bootlegs all over the place,
exactly the same. And that "Best Of" album must be a bootleg. How
can they put out a best of Allan Holdsworth album out without me
knowing about it? So, I know it's a rip-off.
AP: The thing that blows my mind about "Velvet Darkness" is that it
was released on a major label!
AH: Well, I think they bought the whole CTI catalogue from someone
and probably King Records who bootlegged the album the second
time... that album been's bootlegged three times, and each time I
think "great, that's the end of that one," but it showed up again,
it keeps showing up!!!!! But now that it's owned by a big label,
they had to produce all the paperwork and they couldn't, so that's
how we got 'em. They had no paperwork for anything to say they
could do any of that stuff. But there's no way you can stop them.
We had a bootleg video out in Japan. I had a contract that said
this could not be used. I actually have a contract and it just came
out!!!!!!! The video just came out!!!!!!!!
AP: Are we talking about "Tokyo Dreams"?
AH: Yeah, "Tokyo Dreams." What it was is we knew the cameras were
going to be there, but we were supposed to be able to view it
first. It was supposed to be completely up to us whether we wanted
it used it or not. But of course that was not the truth, they lied
and they put it out and it was done in a really sneaky way. The
company that did the video was owned by someone else other than the
video company that put it out and then mysteriously disappeared, so
the contract was... you know... there was nobody... the only way we
could do anything about it... the lawyer I have over here said, if
you have $25,000 you want to put down, I can go and start
something. Obviously, I don't have any mon.. there's just no way.
AP: What other unauthorized releases are out there?
AH: Oh, there's tons of them, tons of them. There's some stuff we
did in Europe, this guy John Stevens, there was one that was a live
radio broadcast, you know it was just a broadcast, from live radio.
It wasn't supposed to be a record! They made that into a record. We
did one album as a group with John Stevens, Jeff Kline and Jeff
Young and it wasn't very good. But everyone agreed, ok, use those
tracks. But what happened is that guy went back again and took
everything else we had done that day, including everything nobody
wanted and released that as well. It's almost like you can't leave
anything around for anyone man, or they'll use it!!!!!!!
AP: What was that called?
AH: It was called "Touching On" I think.
AP: And that was released as an album under your name?
AH: Yeah, it started out as a group. But now the same album has my
name on top. So I'd have to say that is the most frustrating thing
of all. To be in a position where you're trying to survive and keep
some quality and be true to what you believe is good and try to get
deals, record deals and have people do that kind of stuff is pretty
low. Unfortunately, they take advantage of the fact that there are
people out there that will buy it and they know we're so small we
can't do anything about it to stop them. If we were big... nobody
can do that to Madonna or Michael Jackson, because the record
company would just crucify whoever it was. There would be no way
they could ever do that. But when you're in a little Mickey Mouse
situation like we are, you know, when you're just in enough where
you can make a little money, you don't make enough money to stop
people from stealing stuff from you. Again, you've just brought up
another album I know nothing about, and I'd really like to find out
about, perhaps there's something I can do about it.
AP: I didn't realize the extent you were affected by things like
this.
AH: It's my biggest nightmare, yeah.
AP: What I'd like to do is play psychoanalyst, and rhyme off a
bunch of names from your past and have you tell me the first thing
that comes to your mind.
AH: Ok.
[He was really emotional and angry through the whole bootleg
conversation, so he's still cooling off here.]
AP: You're sure?
AH: Sure.
AP: Ok, Soft Machine.
AH: I liked that band. It was a good experience, I liked all of the
musicians and I was free to do what I wanted to at that time within
that framework. I enjoyed that band a great deal.
AP: I was gonna mention Creed Taylor, but you've made your feelings
clear about him.
AP: Yeah. I don't ever want to run across that guy again!
AP: U.K.
AH: Not a nice experience. Nice chaps and everything. But a very
miserable experience.
AP: Why?
AH: Umm.. because it just was... I mean if you ask me that, we're
not playing the game anymore! [laughs]
AP: Ok. [laughs] What about Tony Williams?
AH: That was great. We had some rough times making it work, but it
was a great experience, I enjoyed every minute of it.
AP: What about the band Bruford?
AH: I enjoyed that too. I liked working with Bill. It had some
carry-overs from U.K., but if I hadn't had that bee in my bonnet
about wanting to do my own thing, I would have probably stayed
there. I enjoyed working with Bill.
AP: Gong?
AH: Gong was good too. It was good fun. I didn't speak French and
they were always arguing in French, so I never knew what the hell
they were arguing about! But, I think the band had a lot of
potential, it was just never reached. I recently listened to
"Gazeuse!" recently, because it was re-released on CD. I thought I
was terrible on it, but the band sounded good. It still sounded
pretty fresh, especially the drums. Pierre sounded great, it
sounded like it could have been done yesterday. That says a lot
about his drumming.
AP: Level 42?
AH: It was good. I enjoyed it. It was good fun. Good guys. An
enjoyable experience.
AP: Here's one you probably didn't expect: Sunship.
AH: What's that?
AP: That's a band you were in with Jamie Muir, Alan Gowen and
Laurie Baker, around 1971.
AH: Oh, is that what it was called?
AP: You didn't know that? [laughs]
AH: No! [laughs] Oh yeah! That was good fun too. It was really
different than what I was wanting to do at the time. But as far as
I remember, it was pretty open. It was very spontaneous music.
AP: What kind of music was it?
AH: It was a combination of those people improvising really. It
wasn't like anything else really. So it wasn't really like anything
else I don't think, just a combination of those particular people.
AP: Did you guys record anything?
AH: Not that I know of but... [laughs] Who knows, that might be the
next album, the bootleg! [laughs] Not really, no.
AP: Did you ever tour?
AH: No, but we might have done a couple of gigs. The most I
remember about that band was just rehearsing, going down to one of
the guys' houses.
AP: Do you have any fond memories of those days you can recall for
me?
AH: Yeah, I do. Even though I didn't stay in touch with him, I like
Alan Gowen a lot. He died from leukaemia quite awhile ago. That was
really sad. That's thing I remember most unfortunately, that's he's
not around anymore.
AP: I'd like to go back to U.K. briefly, I don't suppose you can
fill me in on what happened? Why was it so miserable?
AH: It had a lot of potential. The band was originally Eddie
Jobson, Bill [Bruford], and John Wetton without myself. They were
looking for a guitarist and I had just started playing with Bill to
work on his album "Feels Good To Me." And he said "there's this
guitar player playing on my album, wanna check him out?" So, they
had me over and thought this might work and said "let's give it a
go." And we formed the band, came up with the name. I got on really
good with all of them, but what went wrong is that everyone wanted
to do something else. I think there were two factions in the band,
Bill and myself and Eddie and John. And they were kind of at war
really. So that's what made it miserable, they wanted me to play
the same solos every night and it was a completely alien thing for
me. I would have probably been able to adapt to that now, because
what I wanted to do then was so opposite to that. Whereas now, I
could have said maybe, well I know what I want to do, but this is
what this is. But you can never do that, so at the time, I was
going nuts I remember. I enjoyed making the album, and that was
great, but it got to be not too much fun on the road. It was purely
a musical question. I don't know, maybe the other guys in the band
hate me, but it wasn't that for me, it was just the musical thing
it was "Geez, what am I doing here?" you know, it wasn't that I
didn't like the people... I did, I really liked all of those guys,
even though they probably don't realize that! [laughs] It was
purely and simply a musical problem.
AP: Your Restless biography for "Wardenclyffe Tower" says that U.K.
was supposed to be a reformed King Crimson. Is that right?
AH: I don't know. Chris Horde wrote that and he's usually pretty
well informed. I don't know. I don't think that's true.
AP: I'd like to talk to you briefly about Chad Wackerman's "Forty
Reasons" album. I think it's an absolutely killing album.
AH: It's pretty interesting, it's pretty different. [laughs]
AP: Some people have suggested that some of your finest playing
appears on that.
AH: Really? I don't know about that! [laughs] You know, it was all
live, that whole album is live. I'm never happy with anything I do
like that. It's a good album, I enjoy Chad a lot, and I think he
did a great job and the ideas he had, he wrote the tunes, got the
guys together, we didn't rehearse enough though. We got into the
studio and recorded it live.
AP: How did you get along with Walter?
AH: Walter Quintus?
AP: Yeah.
AH: Oh he's great! Really great! [laughs] I like him a lot. He's a
great engineer.
AP: He really strives to preserve the natural dynamics during
sessions.
AH: Yeah, I have a lot of respect for him as an engineer. He's got
great ears and he's really creative. That's a winning combination!
[laughs]
AP: So, you are happy with the album?
AH: Well, I think it's a good album from Chad's point of view, I'm
not happy with what I did on it, no.
AP: Have you seen the adverts CMP have been putting out?
AH: I saw a couple of them, and they're getting a little heavy on
the Allan Holdsworth front aren't they?
AP: Yeah, they have your photo and your name in huge lettering, and
then they have Chad's in microscopic lettering at the side, almost
as if its an album by you.
AH: Yeah, I need to talk to them about that. I'm glad you brought
that up, because Chad asked me about that the beginning. I said,
"No, look, its your album Chad and I know your record company asked
you..." You know, that's a really classic example... why don't they
call me up and say "Hey, do you want to do an album for CMP?" And
then they can put my name on larger than life. It's not my record
and my name shouldn't be there like that. I was just a sideman on
that record! My name shouldn't be on there any bigger than Jimmy
Johnson's. They should be all the same, small. Chad's should be the
big one.
AP: You mentioned earlier that you're thinking about looking for a
job outside of music. Are you really serious about that?
AH: Well, I'm looking into the possibility of what I can do. I just
don't see the way things are right now... first of all, if I lose
the desire... it comes and goes in waves, and it takes about six
months for them to go up and down, but I can go through a wave of
at least six months where I feel I don't want to deal with it any
more and then I'll come out of it and start to get enthused again.
It's not so much about being enthused about what I want to do, I
know what I want to do for myself, it just seems to be getting
harder and harder to survive doing it. It makes you think about
what else can I do? I have to think about it. I'm in the process of
trying to filter it down in my head about what the possibilities
might be.
AP: What are they?
AH: I haven't figured it out really. I don't know what I could do.
I could get involved with a manufacturer perhaps. Or I could simply
go get a job at McDonald's. I'd rather not, but first I'd try to
get involved with a manufacturing company, or an electronics
company, something that did something that I liked.
AP: We've spoken about your public profile briefly, have you ever
considered getting involved in some superstar collaborations to
increase your profile?
AH: Not unless it was something where it was a couple of guys that
are kinda in the same boat...
AP: Maybe working with Satriani or someone of that ilk?
AH: Well, I don't think he has a profile problem...
AP: Well, yeah, exactly. But if you guested on one of his albums,
it could increase public knowledge of you.
AH: Well, that's true. The only main one I would consider doing
like that would be someone that's in a similar position to me and
somehow when they combine, the record company would take notice. If
you get two guys that are considered ok... the record companies
know who the people are, they know about the guys that are out
there, they just say "there's nothing we can do with that kind of
music, so we're gonna pass". I think it would be possible for two
guys to collaborate and get it so you can push it past the point
where they say "maybe we can do something". At that point, there's
a chance. As soon as the record company gets behind it, then they
really want to know they can get some radio. That's a big reason
they won't deal with music like my music. It doesn't fall into a
category, radio stations are so small minded where each one of the
stations type could play something. There's probably something that
will fit. The jazz stations will say its rock and the rock stations
will say its jazz. Instead of picking the track that falls more
closely to what their program is and risking it, they won't do that
and the record companies know that. And they say, well, we can't do
anything with it because we'll never be able to sell it. They're
only interested in money. The buck rules I'm afraid. It's the new
elite, the new aristocracy. All you have to have is money.
AP: Serious priorities are out of whack.
AH: Yeah. As for playing on Joe's album, I don't think people would
take any notice. For example, if I played on a rock album or
something like that, I guess someone would say "oh that guitar solo
might have been ok," but whether that makes someone go out looking
for albums, they might not even know that guy has any albums out.
If you do say, a collaboration, people that already know about
those people, will already know, and a few people, more that don't
know, will find out. That would be the best in every way and the
music will be more intact.
AP: What about getting involved with a full-blown band again?
AH: I wouldn't mind that at all. As long as it doesn't diminish the
fact that I can go out and tour with my own band and make my own
music... I would just be a member of someone else's band. That
would be fine.
AP: Someone has surely approached you about a situation like that.
AP: No.
AH: No????
AP: No.
AH: That astonishes me.
AP: [Laughs] No! I don't know. Maybe they all think I'll tell them
to piss off or something! I have no idea, but it's true.
AP: A lot of people probably think that you'd look down upon a
situation like that.
AH: Yeah, it's not how it is really. Just because I don't want to
pursue that for myself, doesn't mean it's something I don't want to
do. I enjoy playing other's people's music, like when I worked with
Level 42. That was pop music, but I enjoyed it because I knew what
it is and for what it is, it's really good. But to not be able to
do my own thing with my own band... I wouldn't want it to rule, but
I'd definitely be interested in doing things like that.
AP: You should put the word out then. Let people know you're
available!
AH: I guess...
AP: You mentioned you're interested in doing film work. Have you
ever been approached by a director or anyone else?
AH: I was approached by individuals who have been sort of connected
and a guy from an agency who's a fan and liked my music, who
thought it would be acceptable for film music. It's the same thing,
it's like when you go to the movies and see who does the music.
Some guys do wonderful things and then there are guys who do
everything and aren't so good. It's obviously who you know. Once
you get locked into something... "Miami Vice" is a perfect example
of that. Whoever it was that got Jan Hammer that gig, he's the guy
that deserves the medal! What happened was that when Jan Hammer
came into it, it was because of his talent. He was able to do all
of that stuff and it was really different. The music he wrote for
that program was really different than other programs. But then
what happens of course is, you realize how fickle it is. Next thing
you know, there's a "Miami Vice" clone program where there's
someone trying to do the music like Jan Hammer did. What they
should have realized was what made that program great was the
music, someone gave that guy a chance to do something original, his
own thing. If they do that again, instead of turning to other guys
and going "can you do the same thing Jan Hammer did?", they should
not do that! They should say "let's give the guy the freedom to do
his own thing!" And that's what makes these things special. And if
they do know that, they're too afraid of it to risk it, and it's
laughable. I think it's hilarious that they're so afraid to take a
chance!!! It's really funny.
AP: You mentioned "Music For Imaginary Films", that was an actual
album you were working on?
AH: It was supposed to be yeah. The guy that was going to put up
the money never saw it materialize, but like I said, the ideas are
still there. So that's something I might consider for the future.
AP: So, someone was personally financing it?
AH: He was a friend of mine who was starting up a small label, but
he wasn't actually able to achieve it.
AP: That's really too bad. I'd love to see you doing some film
soundtracks, I think your stuff is really well suited to it. I hope
something falls in your lap. Have you thought about pursuing
television as well?
AH: Yeah, maybe. But the thing that makes me afraid about that is,
that when you get involved with series, I'm not saying I
wouldn't... but that would become the dominant thing, the main
thing that I do. Whereas with a film, a film is a film, and it's
one event and you take care of that one event. And if someone else
wants you to do a film, you can do it, or not do it.
AP: What are your impressions of the current rock and jazz scenes?
AH: The only rock I really listen to is what I listen to on the
radio.
AP: Does anything grab you right now?
AH: No, not really. It seems to be getting more and more circus-
oriented. It sounds like a three-headed snake or something. It's
got too much of a hydra content, I can't hear the music in it
somehow. I don't know.
AP: What about current jazz trends?
AH: In what way do you mean trends?
AP: Umm... I hate to use the word, but what about fusion?
AH: Fusion? Well, that's a perfectly good word, but when I think of
fusion, I always think about the wrong thing. When someone says
fusion, I think of what you hear in elevators now. [laughs] It used
to be muzak, but now its fuzak.
AP: What do you think of the stuff that passes for jazz today? Like
the stuff coming out on labels like GRP?
AH: GRP seems to be really commercial for me.
AP: Yeah, they are...
AH: It's really highly polished...
AP: Crap!
AH: The guys are really great players, I'm not knocking it, but it
doesn't seem to be 100% there, the creative aspect of it. But there
is some great stuff out there, there has to be!
AP: The big question for us out there is are you gonna tour Canada
in the near future?
AH: We'd like to, but it's just getting some gigs!
AP: I hear you had trouble getting some band members into the
country recently.
AH: Yeah, that was one of the problems yeah.
AP: What happened?
AH: It was just too difficult really. With Skuli, everything's
legit, but he's on a student visa and he's on his last student
visa, so it's difficult for him to keep coming and going, leaving
the country and getting back in. It's not so hard for him to get
into Canada as it is for him to get back home. He lives in New York
now, so it's a risk that nobody really wants him to have to go
through. And to get a work permit to do Canada, which we usually
do, creates a problem for him when he goes back. He's on his last
student visa and he's not supposed to be working. Last time we had
problems... we had problems with Gary last time around too. He's
from England. No problem getting into Canada, it was getting back
into the States. Each time he leaves, he needs a new work permit
and a work permit costs $5000. To go back to Canada would cost at
least $5000 or $6000. We'd have to do two or three gigs free just
to cover that. It's not an economically viable thing to do.
AP: That's really too bad. We'd love to see back here again!
AH: I know. We're trying. The only time we could do it is at the
end of a tour, when Gary is going back to England, so that we only
need the one work permit for the States, and he wouldn't need
another one to get back in. I don't know why that works that way...
it's very complicated. We'd love [very emphatically] to do it! But
then again, we have to have someone offer to book us!
AP: I'm sure there's someone out there that would like to book you
for Ontario and Quebec. I think you've even played Ottawa 2-3 times
I believe.
AH: Yeah, I don't think we've played Quebec for a long time! [Are
you reading this Luigi????]
AP: I know for a fact that you have a lot of dedicated fans out
there still, particularly in Montreal.
AH: Yeah, that's right. We played there a few years ago, that was
great. We always enjoy coming to Canada. We're gonna see if we can
do it this year.
AP: So what's in the future for you?
AH: We've got a short California tour coming up in February. And
then we're going to go off to Europe after that. We've been trying
to get back over there. It's the same problem. Shipping equipment
and all of that... it gets to be a financial hazard. You don't get
any money from anywhere else except what you make on the road.
You're cutting corners all the time. The last tour in Europe, we
all travelled around in one vehicle, including all the equipment
and everything. We had two guys that were working for us, they
worked so hard it was unbelievable and nobody got paid! At the end
of the tour we didn't have any money left! [laughs] It's hard,
especially if there's a lot of days off travelling. We figured it
out vaguely, roughly... it cost $1000 a day just to be there.
That's true of the states, so I'm sure it's more expensive
elsewhere. If we're on the road in the States, every day that we
don't work costs $1000. So, you really have to more careful when
you plan European tours, because of the distance and all that. And
sometimes the agent is only concerned with making sure his
commission is going to be ok, and they're still not sure of how
difficult it is to get from point A to point B. Either it's almost
impossible to do it in a day, especially if you cross a border and
have to deal with a cranky customs guy. It can get expensive. But
we're gonna try again, and hopefully do it a little each time until
we can figure out how we can do it.
AP: Any other outside projects in the offing?
AH: No, not at the moment.
AP: Just the Beatles' cover album and the revamped "Wardenclyffe
Tower" for Japan.
AH: Yeah, I sent that off a couple of days ago [his "Michelle"
cover]. I didn't hear back from anybody yet. He [Mike Mainieri]
might hate it, it might not end up on the record! [laughs] If it
doesn't end up on his record, it'll end up on mine, so it's not
lost!
AP: Thanks for the interview Allan. It's been a pleasure.
AH: Likewise. This always happens to me, I drink and then I go to
bed and I get up and I'm still asleep! [laughs] My brain doesn't
work sometimes for awhile afterwards! [laughs]
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ALLAN HOLDSWORTH INTERVIEW by Anil Prasad
Part Two of Two
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Copyright 1993 Anil Prasad. (Ottawa, Ontario, Canada)
All rights reserved.
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If you see this interview or portions of it appear ANYWHERE else,
please drop me a line at wcsanil@ccs.carleton.ca immediately.
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